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A BONUS PBG for Friday May, 24th — Alternative Siding, Basements, and Purlin Size

A BONUS PBG for Friday May, 24th — Alternative Siding, Basements, and Purlin Size

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: In towns that disapprove of houses with rib steel siding, can traditional OSB sheathing on the bookshelf girts w/ vinyl cladding be substituted? Material prices seem similar and no huge difference in labor seems probable. But, will the difference change the engineering specs due to racking and deflection, etc? I.E.: could that change the bookshelf girts size or spacing? How thick would the OSB need to be? What nailing would be needed? BRIAN in LEROY

DEAR BRIAN: While pre-painted ribbed steel siding is the most durable and cost effective siding available, some jurisdictions just do not ‘get it’ and demand (as is their right) alternative sidings. When we engineer using commercial bookshelf wall girts, we limit deflection to what sheetrock will withstand, so they are effective with any type of external siding materials. No changes to structural system will need to be made, other than vertical blocking between wall girts every 4′ (in order to provide a nailing surface for edges of OSB). If you use vinyl siding, then 7/16″ OSB and a Weather Resistant barrier will be necessary. Typical nailing will be 8d common nails at 3″ on center along panel edges.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can a pole barn building have a basement? CLARK in HILLSBORO

DEAR CLARK: Absolutely! We can even engineer it using a permanent wood foundation, saving you thousands of dollars as compared to a concrete foundation. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/02/barndominium-on-a-daylight-basement/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m building a 36x64x16 8′ truss spacing . We want exposed truss and ceiling cavity without the use of drop ceiling or blown in bat. My question is it smart to use 2×6 purlins instead of 2×4 to allow for room for faced 6″ insulation to get a R19 value, besides spray foam what are some other options. Thanks. ZACH in LAUREL

DEAR ZACH: While it is smart to use 2×6 purlins, using batt insulation between your purlins will result in nothing but long term problems. Your only real answer is closed cell spray foam https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2023/10/properly-insulating-between-roof-purlins/

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Lumber, Alternate Siding, Barndominium, Insulation, Building Interior, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Budget, Building Styles and Designs, Building Department, Lofts, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Heating, Trusses and tagged alternative siding, lap siding, post frame basement, ceiling insulation, purlin size, post frame siding, basement, spray foam on May 24, 2024 by Rick Ochs.

Pier Insulation, Hold Up Distances, and Site Prep

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about insulating around outside of post piers, the hold-up distance of any non-treated lumber or wall sheathing, and if laying gravel prior to drilling and setting columns would be best order of building.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Kind of a 2 parter. I am trenching 4′ straight down around the perimeter (in between posts, just inside the splash plank) of my post frame home. Should I also do the porch on the front of the house? Also I was told I should insulate around the outside of the post piers as well to prevent frost heave. Is this necessary? If so how would I do that if my collard are already poured? DYLAN in GLENWOOD

DEAR DYLAN: Your easiest design solution is to place rigid insulation boards down 2′, then out horizontally (most Building Departments accept 2′ out). This places all of your insulation above tops of concrete collars. This guide should prove helpful (keep in mind, it is for traditional stick built, but concrete has no magical frost preventive properties, so replace “concrete” with compactable fill): https://www.huduser.gov/publications/pdf/fpsfguide.pdf Your porch is best insulated, not only around perimeter, but also under slab itself.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hey I see you post a lot on the pole building pages. I have a question about vinyl siding on a pole building and how to keep the OSB water proof. Which a traditional pole building you have your metal siding attaching to your skirt board, but with vinyl siding you have OSB nailed to your skirt board and then tyvek then your siding. How do you keep the OSB board from wicking water up from the ground when you back fill on the outside of the building? Is there a proper way to keep that water tight? STEVEN in CENTREVILLE

DEAR STEVEN: By Code – any non-treated lumber or sheathing must be kept at least six inches above grade. When we have OSB or plywood sheathing, or T1-11 siding, we use a 2×10 pressure treated splash plank, so there is still 3-1/4″ of splash plank to nail to when sheathing is held up 6″.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Is it ok to put in the gravel leveled and compacted before the builder starts building the post type garage This is what they like, not sure why. Thanks. DAVID in SHEPHERDSVILLE

DEAR DAVID: It is going to be far easier (and less expensive) to properly grade your site and compact fill before your building begins, than trying to do it afterwards. Working equipment around posts and walls is going to be time consuming and can result in structural damage, if not done carefully.

This entry was posted in Alternate Siding, Building Drainage, Columns, Lumber, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Building Siding, Concrete, Footings and tagged Non-treated lumber, OSB, alternative siding, gravel pad, foundation insulation, building site prep, level build site, insulated piers, OSB hold up on August 9, 2023 by admin.

Tornado Safety, Garage Additions, and Utilities in Post Frame

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about the safety of a pole barn in the event of a tornado, whether a new post frame garage can be added to an existing home, and the standards to run utility wires and pipes through posts.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How safe are pole barn houses in tornadoes? BRENDA in CHATTANOOGA

DEAR BRENDA: Fully engineered post frame (pole barn) houses are as safe and sturdy as their design wind speeds. We can have your building engineered to resist wind speeds up to and in excess of 200 miles per hour (basically encompassing EF4 events). In weighing out risk/reward – a Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer can price for you incrementally starting at your jurisdiction’s mandated design wind speeds. This allows you to determine what you are willing and able to invest.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Is it possible to design a 2 car garage to attach directly to the side of my house with matching vinyl siding? AMY in CLEVELAND

DEAR AMY: Yes it would be possible. We would need to have information on (dimensions and location of attachment) and photos of your house as well as what brand and color your vinyl siding is.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Good morning sir, I am building a shop/house and have a question about running wire and pex water lines through the posts I have read your threads about this yet still not 100%. I do not have the gap between the metal and the posts like you spoke of so drilling the posts seems like the easiest way for me to accomplish the routing of the wire. So what is the right answer, can i drill the posts or not per code?? Thanks SAM in KENNEWICK

DEAR SAM: Think of a hole being drilled through as being an “open knot”. Lumber grading rules refer to these as being “Unsound or Loose Knots and Holes” due to any cause. Most structural framing – like wall girts and roof purlins or posts and timbers are graded as Number 2.
For practical purposes, a hole up to just less than ¼ of board face being drilled through will be within grade in #2 lumber. Example: 5-1/2” face of a 6×6 a hole up to 1-1/4” may be drilled through, as often as every two feet. Allowable hole sizes are reduced and spacing increased for higher grades of lumber.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Structure, Pole Building Siding, Vinyl Siding, Columns, Pole Barn Questions, Post Frame Home, Pole Barn Design, Building Styles and Designs, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning and tagged post frame wiring, post frame water pipes, wind speed, alternative siding, post frame addition, tornado safety, EF4 wind, water lines on May 3, 2023 by admin.

Framing for Sheetrock, Exterior Stairs, and Board & Batten Siding

This Wednesday, the Pole Barn Guru addresses hanging of sheetrock on horizontal girts compared to conventional framing, the best method to install or add stairs to a structure to comply with building codes, and proper installation for board and batten siding.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have read about the benefits of hanging sheetrock on horizontal members (exterior wall with bookshelf girts) that you wrote (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/09/11-reasons-post-frame-commercial-girted-walls-are-best-for-drywall/). Just recently I installed some on an existing wall which I had shimmed 2 ft. o.c. horizontally due to the wall not being level. I found that to be an easier install compared to 16″oc stud wall. My question is, when we get ready to frame our interior walls, non- load bearing, is it ok to frame 2 ft. o.c. horizontally with blocks? Any pros and cons would be appreciated. thanks for the wealth of knowledge that you provide on this website. ALLEN in CABOT

DEAR ALLEN: Thank you for your kind words sir, much appreciated. Excited you were able to take advantage of benefits of hanging sheetrock vertical on horizontal members. I would frame interior walls conventionally (vertical studs 24 inches on center), then add horizontal blocking for sheetrock. Should make door openings and wall intersections easier to frame.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, my building is recently completed and I am interested in adding concrete stairs in front of the four foot man-doors. Should I cut out the splash plank, drill and insert rebar in the slab to anchor, pour under the now exposed 1 1/2″ reveal under the door threshold? Or, Frame in the steps and pour concrete against the splash board? KEVIN in SILVERDALE

DEAR KEVIN: 2018 International Residential Code (IRC) Section R311.5 states exterior landings, decks, balconies, stairs, and similar facilities shall be positively anchored to primary structure to resist both vertical and lateral forces or shall be designed to be self-supporting. Attachment shall not be accomplished by use of toenails or nails subject to withdrawal. Due to possible differential settling of soils, we would recommend your stairs be designed as self-supporting. Leave splash plank intact and pour your stairs up to it.

DEAR POLE BAR NGURU: How would the bracing effect of full height 5/4 x10 wood siding (board & batten) attached directly to the girts compare to the bracing provided by metal siding on a pole barn? Thanks. KEVIN in WEST CALN

DEAR KEVIN: 5/4 x 10 board and batten should be able to be applied directly to 24 inch on center bookshelf wall girts and perform similarly to 29 gauge through screws steel panels. Boards should be dried to a 19% or less moisture content before installing. 2021 IBC Table 2304.10.2 provides appropriate fastening in Section 20: (3) 8d common nails (2-1/2″ x 0.131″); (4) 8d box nails (2-1/2″ x 0.113″); (3) 10d box nails (3″ x 0.128″) or (4) 1-3/4″ x 16 gauge staples with 1″ crown. It would be strongly recommend (and may be a local Code requirement) to apply a well-sealed Weather Resistant Barrier between wall girts and siding. Message:

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Building Siding, Concrete, Alternate Siding, Building Interior, Fasteners and tagged alternative siding, sheetrock framing, horizontal framing, exterior stairs, board and batten, 2018 IBC on February 1, 2023 by admin.

Gothic Arch, Steel Board and Batten, and Engineering Services

This Monday the Pole Barn Guru discusses Gothic arches, steel board and batten, and engineering services.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am going to build a 24×36 barn and have become infatuated with the Gothic arch roof line from looking at existing arch roofed barns in my area (one is amazing…built in 1911). Any thoughts on using laminated arches in conjunction with a pole barn? The walls would be 10′ tall with the arch reaching to 28′ tall. If the end poles (8′ spacing) were extended to reach the arch, they would need to be 25′ tall. Thanks. DUSTIN in LLOYDMINSTER

DEAR DUSTIN: My first experience with gothic arches were those built in the 1970’s by Red Waggoner in North Idaho. He used Construction Adhesive to glue 2x4s into arches (of course with no engineering). In West Central Minnesota, there are many of them – none of recent construction. In order to keep arch bases from spreading, they would need to be anchored directly to a concrete foundation, piers or somehow attached to a wall-to-wall floor. While they look neat, I am doubtful they would be a viable design solution combined with post frame.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Is steel board and batten an option for pole barn construction? BRITTANY in MILLRY

DEAR BRITTANY: Steel board and batten siding is an option for post frame construction. It will be significantly more expensive than standard through screwed steel and should be installed only over a solid substrate such as 5/8″ CDX plywood.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi there, I am developing a plan for a 1.5 story small cabin and would like to build with a pole structure, with poles on cement pads or perma-columns and a wooden raised floor. I have been thoroughly enjoying your blog posts and thought I would write to ask about your services. I’m not looking for a kit or premade plans but could use some engineering guidance based on the basic design that I’ve put together for an ~18×20 structure. Do you guys offer that kind of service, with hourly rates or otherwise?

Thanks and I hope to hear from you soon! BEN in OAKLAND

DEAR BEN: Thank you very much for your kind words. Due to liability issues we are unable to offer this sort of service. You might try reaching out to one of our independent third-party engineers John Raby (john@raby-assoc.com) to determine if he would have an interest in assisting you.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Planning, Steel Roofing & Siding, Alternate Siding, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Questions and tagged engineering, Registered Professional Engineer, alternative siding, Gothic arch, steel board and batten on August 24, 2020 by admin.

Horizontal Sheeting, Framing for Insulation, and Alternative Siding

Today the Pole Barn Guru answers questions about overlapping horizontal sheets of steel, the best plan for framing to insulate, and best way to install vinyl lap siding on a post frame building.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: When installing horizontal sheeting, does the top sheet always cover the bottom sheet when joined? GARY in EUFAULA

DEAR GARY: In order to prevent water infiltration, yes. Provided overlaps have sufficient overlap, gravity will pull water downward across this overlap.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am looking to have a pole barn put up and wanted your opinion on how to best construct the shell if I want to insulate it down the road. From some of the things I have read I should include some type of foam board under the roof sections and maybe tyvek under the metal walls? Please let me know your thoughts. ROBERT in TIPP CITY

DEAR ROBERT: You do not want to place foam board between roof steel and roof framing as this will create a potential ‘slip’ between steel and framing, reducing or eliminating your roof’s diaphragm strength and resistance to wind loads.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I want to put vinyl siding on my pole shed. Do I need to frame 16″ on center walls between poles? What do you recommend? Thanks. TRAVIS in ANDOVER

DEAR TRAVIS: I would recommend using roll formed steel siding.

If your building is not yet erected, contact your engineer who designed your plans to have him or her confirm this is adequate. Place 2×6 wall girts bookshelf style between columns, with outside of girt and outside of columns flush. Install 2×4 Standard & better with wide face to wind at 24 inches on center vertically between pressure preservative treated splash plank and eave strut – nailing 2×4 to each girt with two 10d common nails. Toe nail at top and bottom.

Install 7/16 inch OSB or ½ inch CDX plywood to 2×4 per engineer’s recommendations. Wrap with a Weather Resistant Barrier and install vinyl siding.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Structure, Pole Building Siding, Alternate Siding, Vinyl Siding, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions and tagged post frame insulation, alternative siding, lap siding, Horizontal sheeting on December 9, 2019 by admin.

Hansen in Washington, Alternate Siding and Roofing, and Post Frame Homes

This Monday, the Pole Barn Guru responds to questions about Hansen’s service area, alternate siding and roofing, and post frame homes.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Do you service this area? MARELYN in TENINO, WA

DEAR MARELYN: Thank you for your interest in a new Hansen Pole Building. Not only do we service Tenino and its surrounds, we provide more post frame building kit packages in Washington than any other state. For those of you outside of Washington, we have delivered our post frame buildings to every state in our country – you are never far away from a Hansen Pole Building!

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can you build a pole building that has brick on the outside with a shingled roof? SEAN in GRANITEVILLE

DEAR SEAN: A beauty of post frame (pole) building construction is virtually any variety of materials can be utilized for roofing and siding. This would include have a bricked exterior as well as a shingled roof.

Unless you happen to be in a neighborhood with restrictions against steel roofing, you might want to consider not using shingles and here is why: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/03/shingle-warranties/.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My husband and I are interested in building a Residential Pole Barn home. Can you please send a catalog of Residential Pole Barn Kits that you offer and pricing.

Thanking you in advance. JUDYANN in HEMET

DEAR JUDYANN: Thank you very much for your interest in a new Hansen Pole Building. Because all of our buildings are 100% custom, we can design and provide virtually anything you can imagine as a post frame building. This also means we have no catalog. Find a home design you like and we can fit it into being a post frame building. One of our Building Designers will be reaching out to you to further discuss your needs or you can dial 1(866)200-9657.

This entry was posted in Pole Building Siding, Pole Barn Homes, Barndominium, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials and tagged pole barn homes, alternative siding, alternative roofing, hansen locations, Washington state on June 24, 2019 by admin.

Use Categories, Water Leaks, and Matching a House

Today’s Pole Barn Guru answers questions regarding Use Categories, water leaks, and matching a house due to HOA rules.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi! I am trying to turn my existing barn into a wedding venue. Why am I being classified as A-2 instead of A-3? Our special use permit says we cannot exceed 300 guests and we have less than 12,000 sq. ft. Additionally, we are not serving food or alcohol- the guests must provide their own- ergo we should not be considered a “banquet hall” under A-2… Correct? ALYSSA in ARLINGTON

DEAR ALYSSA: In an ideal world you would have just asked your Planning Department why. In researching your question, I believe your Planning Department is correct – even though YOU are not serving food or alcohol, guests may bring their own. This makes it an “eating establishment”.
A-3 is a group for worship, recreation and amusement uses. It is also a catch-all for other uses not specifically called out. These uses include galleries, religious worship spaces, courtrooms, sports spaces without seating, lecture halls, libraries, museums, pool halls, bowling alleys, transportation waiting areas and funeral parlors.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: After years our barn is leaking at the bottom during very heavy rains. We have gutters on the sides but it appears to be coming in thru the wood at the bottom below the metal siding. Maybe from hydrostatic pressure any suggestions? CAROL in CLARKSVILLE

DEAR CAROL: Get rid of the water.

I realize this sounds simplistic, but it is what needs to be done. Building Codes require sites to slope away from buildings by at least 5%. This would be six inches of drop in 10 feet. If you do not have this type of slope away from pressure preservative treated splash plank at building base, you need to start digging.

Gutter downspouts should not just put water out on top of your ground. This water should be directed into downspout drain lines – moving away from your barn.

Once you have done both of these steps, your “leaking” issues should go away.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I live in a neighborhood with an HOA. I can build any kind of building I want, but it must match my house, i.e. Brick or Vinyl Siding (house has both) and a shingled roof. Can a pole building be built with these features instead of metal and will it be just as good? DAVID in GREENSBORO

DEAR DAVID: A beauty of post-frame (pole) building design and construction is you can side and roof them with any materials you can imagine! Not only will it be every bit as good, it will also be more affordable.

You can read about a HOA horror story here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2016/05/not-mess-hoas/

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, Alternate Siding, Building Drainage, Venues, Pole Barn Questions and tagged building site drainage, building use category, alternative siding, use categories, Water leaks on June 17, 2019 by admin.

Alternative Siding, Building on Slab, and Ceiling Liner Loading

Today’s Pole Barn Guru answers questions about alternative siding and roofing, whether one can build on an existing slab, and if a ceiling liner can hold insulation.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can you build me a steel wall inside and vinyl siding on the outside with asphalt shingles? PAUL in BLUE GRASS

DEAR PAUL: A beauty of post-frame construction is we can design for virtually any combination of roofing and siding materials you may desire. While I am not a huge fan of steel liner panels, yes – your building can have them along with your vinyl siding. Steel liner panels end up posing challenges with trying to attach things to them, like work benches, cabinets, shelves, etc. Gypsum wallboard (sheet rock) is generally far more affordable as well as easier to make attachments to. And, if 5/8” Type X is used, affords some fire protection.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can Hansen build the barn on top of an existing slab? CLYDE in BELLVILLE

DEAR CLYDE: Yes, we can design a complete post frame building kit package to be attached to your existing concrete slab. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/12/dry-set-column-anchors/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My trusses are 8 feet on center will the metal ceiling liner span that 8 feet without sagging if I blow in fiberglass insulation? RODNEY in LAKE ELMO

DEAR RODNEY: No, steel liner panels will sag across an eight foot span. If your building’s roof trusses are not designed to support weight of a ceiling load, then they will sag as well – and, in combination with a snow load, may fail.

This entry was posted in Roofing Materials, Pole Building Siding, Trusses, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design and tagged truss loads, dry set brackets, Ceiling loads, alternative siding, alternative roofing, Existing slab, ceiling liner on May 6, 2019 by admin.

Moving a Building, Moisture Issues, and Siding Options

This week, the Pole Barn Guru discusses moving a building, a building with moisture issues, and siding options other than wainscot.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We have a 50 year old Morton machine shed 45X90X12. The posts and trusses are in excellent condition. The roof steel needs to be re-screwed and painted . The side wall steel probably needs to be replaced. The big problem with the building is its location. Our grain drying and storage has grown over the years and now we use semis instead of straight trucks and wagons. the machine shed blocks the grain dump so we have to back every semi in to unload and load. If we could move the shed about 60 feet north and 15 feet east we could still get a lot of use out of it. Otherwise we will probably take it down. Is moving it a practical idea to pursue? TED in DEXTER

DEAR TED: Sadly I just cannot see a scenario where moving this building becomes truly practical. If you have lots of free time, you could completely disassemble it and rebuild in a preferable location. However, you are reusing materials and things never seem to fit back together as tight as they did originally. If you are not going to rebuild, you might consider offering it to someone who will take it down and haul it away – it would save you time and effort and someone else can have headaches of teardown and rebuild.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I had a 30×40 built 14 feet high. Vapor barrier was used, insulated walls and vapor shield on top of the trusses, Vented over hangs and a ridge vent, insulated ceiling and metal on the walls and the ceilings.

Whenever I pull in my vehicles wet and leave them in there I get moisture all over everything. Now I am noticing green mold on the plywood work bench and in some various spots on the loft I built. I do not have any heat in there as I was not concerned about it being real warm in there, but I am wondering if am going to have to heat it to get rid of the moisture?
Any help would be appreciated. GREG in ELMA

DEAR GREG: Your steel liner has created a surface trapping any and all moisture inside of your building. In my humble opinion you have just one more example of why steel liner panels are not a good design solution for most buildings.

Just water alone, dripping from your vehicles, will probably not add enough moisture to create your described situation.

Step number one in solving your challenge – unless you know a well-sealed vapor barrier exists underneath your building’s concrete floor, use a good concrete sealer upon it. This might be a product you should consider: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/11/siloxa-tek-8505-concrete-sealant/.

Unless you have taken steps to prevent moisture from migrating through your concrete slab, adding heat will merely draw even more water up through this slab into your building.

Secondly, you need to get moisture out of your building by adding a powered exhaust vent, a dehumidifier or both.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Another design question from me, I have too much planning time on my hands. With my house I made the mistake of having the vinyl siding too close to grade and it is showing lots of damage from typical yard maintenance, i.e. trimmers. I want to do a wainscot on my pole barn and probably correct the problem with my home siding at the same time. Not a huge fan of the metal siding for wainscot, not enough style contrast for me. Ideally I would do a stone veneer, but that is pricey. I am considering all options at this point. Stucco, fiber cement board, wood, even toying with the idea of veneering the outside with concrete pavers. Do you have any experience gems to share or any out of the box ideas? Thanks. ROB in ANNAPOLIS

DEAR ROB: Even with Code mandated six inch minimum hold up above grade for vinyl siding, it experiences a significant amount of damage just as you describe. Our house has steel wainscot and it has performed admirably other than where our daughter-in-law drove a riding lawn mower into it. All it took to repair was removal and replacement of a few short steel panels.