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To Double-Up Trusses, Existing Bracket Use, and Ceiling Insulation

This Wednesday the Pole barn Guru answers reader questions about the need to double up trusses on a 24×36 with 2×6 trusses 12′ OC, use of existing brackets in a stem wall for a post frame home, and best method of ceiling insulation with “double bubble” on roof.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Building pole barn 24’x36′ with 2″x6″ trusses 12′ OC. Do I need to double up the trusses or will a single do? GARY in KANAB

nailing trussesDEAR GARY: While it may be possible to have single trusses designed to support loads adequately on 12 foot centers, we have always utilized a double truss system for interior clear spans, with a single truss on each end.

Why? To begin with, probability of two trusses, physically connected to each other, having an exact identical weak point would be infinitesimally small. This sort of redundancy minimizes possibilities of a failure, even with loads far in excess of original design. Double trusses also require far less bracing than do single trusses.

If you have not yet ordered your building, our team would certainly like to discuss it further, as we have provided hundreds of fully engineered post-frame buildings to our clients in Utah.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: There is an existing stem wall foundation (only a few years old) on the property we recently purchased. Obviously we would like to utilize the existing stem wall. It seems as if it was built with a post frame building in mind because there are brackets already anchored in. The stem wall is a 50×70 foot rectangle, though we do not want to build a 3500 sqf home. Can we build a post frame home on part of the stem wall (utilizing the unused portions as a porch perhaps?) and would this approach even make sense? ANDY in BURLEY

DEAR ANDY: Like you, I hate to waste anything seemingly of value. It may very well be possible to utilize your existing foundation – provided it passed previous inspections from your Building Department. If not, it may be necessary to have a local engineer do an inspection to determine adequacy. From our end, we would need to know specifics of existing brackets (as well as their spacing), as they may be inadequate to attach to.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a 30 x 40 pole barn I use for a shop and office with double bubble insulation between the purlins and the steel roof. The roof pitch is 4:12 and ceilings are 12′ high. I would like to use blown in cellulose over a steel panel ceiling. Do I need a vapor barrier between the cellulose and the coated steel ceiling panels if I maintain good air flow between the eave vents and the ridge vent? Thanks in advance for the advice. DENNIS in WASHINGTON

DEAR DENNIS: Fire retardant chemicals in cellulose insulation react negatively with steel, if any moisture happens to become present. Due to this, and cellulose being relatively heavy, you might want to consider blown in fiberglass (although difficult to find, granulated Rockwool would be an even better choice, as it is unaffected by moisture). If you do determine cellulose is your best fit, you will want to have a vapor barrier to keep it out of contact with your steel ceiling panels.

This entry was posted in Budget, Columns, Pole Barn Homes, Insulation, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Questions, Roofing Materials, Trusses, Barndominium, Ventilation, Building Interior and tagged , , , , on by .

OSB Sheathing, Plywood for Roof Strength, and Brackets for Helical Piers

This Wednesday the Pole barn Guru answers reader questions about adding OSB sheathing under new roof steel, as well as more trusses and carriers to support the new loads, a concern about the need for plywood under roof steel to make a building stronger, and if Hansen has a bracket to use with a helical pier in post frame design.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have an older building that was built with 8′ oc trusses. I plan to replace the roof and all of the siding to update it and solve all of the leaks. However, I want to add osb sheathing underneath the roof steel because I have to get on the roof to clean the gutters 4 or 5 times a year. Currently the roof system has the typical on edge purlin with single truss design and I’ve spoken to some engineers who suggest adding large headers between the wall columns then adding 2′ oc trusses to accommodate the sheathing load. My question is: Are there any other options to allow me to add sheathing to the roof such as double truss with joist hangers between them and purlins that are flush with the tops of the trusses? I really like having the 8’oc for the space it gives me overhead and I’d like to keep as much of that as possible. Thanks in advance! JAMES in LA CROSSE

DEAR JAMES: Have you considered investing in a quality gutter system so you do not have to clean them out regularly? Raptor Gutter Guard seemingly is most highly recommended https://www.raptorgutterguard.com/?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIoY2p2OzLhAMVJlFHAR0G-gzoEAAYASAAEgKrn_D_BwE

With this said 7/16″ OSB weighs all of 46 pounds for a 4′ x 8′ sheet (1.44 pounds per square foot). Chances are better than fair this extra weight is within design capacities of your existing roof system. This would allow for you to add OSB, running it up roof (from eave to ridge) and fastening directly to existing roof purlins.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Good afternoon, I have been working with Cory in the design department. He has referred me for some additional information. We are looking at building a 30 wide by 60 long 15 foot sidewall 5/12 Pitch roof pole barn. My husband is being insistent on wanting to put plywood on the entire roof, saying it will make the roof stronger. Thus the entire building stronger. I was wondering if you could address that type of construction versus the construction that would be specked for my area which is upstate New York zip 13736. I appreciate your help and answering this question. KAREN in BERKSHIRE

DEAR KAREN: Think of properly fastened steel roofing as performing like very strong, very thin plywood. On a building of your proposed dimensions, with your wind and snow loads, your building’s steel cladding will easily carry all of these with ease. Adding plywood under your roof steel will not increase your building’s load resisting capacity. It could help to minimize damage from a catastrophic hail storm (for extended reading on preventing hail damage in extreme circumstances https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/11/how-to-minimize-possible-hail-damage/). Best investment to making your building stronger is to order it with greater load capacity than Building Code requirements. Bumping up a flat roof snow load by 5 or 10 psf (pounds per square foot) and/or design wind speeds by 5 or 10 mph, often adds very little to your investment and then every component and connection is engineer verified for those greater loads.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I own a helical pier installation company based out of MN, and I have a customer that’s interested in having install helical piers for their upcoming pole shed project. I was reading online that your company has a bracket available and I would like more information on that if possible. I appreciate your time and look forward to hearing from you. CHRIS in ALBERTVILLE

DEAR CHRIS: We had a plethora of discussions with a helical pier provider several years ago and its weak link (one they had not solved) was attaching columns to piers. Neither of us (or anyone else I have found) has developed a structurally sufficient, code accepted transition so far. Post frame has some tremendous reactions at ground line to resolve in whatever connector or bracket is eventually developed.

This entry was posted in Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Barndominium, Trusses, Footings, Columns, Pole Barn Homes, Lumber, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design and tagged , , , , , , on by .

Post Frame Possibilities, Engineer Sealed Plans in Canada, and Horse Barn Apartment

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru tackles reader questions about the possibilities of post frame wall height with columns atop a concrete wall, interpreting client needs into engineer sealed drawings, and the scope of a barn to accommodate horses on the main level and an apartment above.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Could I build tall (25 ft) walls with poles at 6ft on center on top of an 8″ thick concrete wall, with anchors as required? I have never built with pole system; always stick framed, but I need the larger spans for tempered glass walls. Thanks for your advice. TARUNO in LA HONDA

DEAR TARUNO: In answer to your question….maybe. With 25 foot tall walls, an eight-inch thick concrete wall may not prove to be adequate. We can incorporate ICC-ESR approved wet set brackets into top of your concrete, in order to attach columns. Walls would need to be checked, by our engineers, to assure they would have adequate amounts of sheathing to properly transfer shear loads from roof to ground. We are able to provide columns up to 60 foot lengths, so your wall height should not pose a challenge.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Is your company or you capable of interpreting customer wants into engineered drawings for permits compliance? MARTY in CALGARY

 

DEAR MARTY: This is exactly what we do for roughly a hundred new clients every day, seven days a week, in all 50 U.S. states. Unfortunately for you, we do not currently have Candian Building Codes programmed into our system.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How tall would a barn have to be to accommodate horses on the bottom and eventually a 2 bed 2 bath apartment in the loft? JUSTINE in LITTLETON

DEAR JUSTINE: Before we get too deep into this, some things to consider: living above horses you will be faced with dust, odors, noise, insects and rodents. Most jurisdictions will require a two-hour fire separation between living and barn spaces, this means you have to have outside stairs and all structural supports for second floor need to be two-hour fire protected as well. You will have stairs to negotiate. Insurance is going to be very expensive. On to your question: Horses should have 10 feet of headroom, then thickness of your floor, 8 feet (or more) of ceiling height for your living space, then thickness of your roof system (raised heel trusses to blow in full depth of insulation from wall-to-wall will be nearly two feet thick). When all is said and done, you are looking at roughly a 22 foot eave height. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/05/how-tall-should-my-eave-height-be-for-two-stories/

This entry was posted in Footings, Barndominium, floorplans, Building Interior, Professional Engineer, Columns, Lofts, Pole Barn Questions, Horse Riding Arena, Pole Barn Design, Building Styles and Designs, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Apartments, Concrete and tagged , , , , , , , , on by .

A Residential Pole Barn, Missing Lumber, and Building on Existing Slab

Today the Pole Barn Guru answers questions about plans for a residential pole barn, lumber going missing, and to building an existing slab.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, I’m looking to build a residential pole barn. I would need enough space for 3 bedroom 2 bath. How big of a pole barn would I need? CULLEN in ROCHESTER

DEAR CULLEN: It depends upon what sort of spaces you want to live in. I grew up in a home which was just as you describe and only 960 square feet. Conversely, right now I live in a home which has one bedroom, 1-1/2 baths and has 2400 square feet of living space.

I encourage you to go to lots of open houses, take your tape measure and a notebook. When you find rooms feeling comfortable to you, measure them. Consider spaces you need to create for your lifestyle. Don’t short yourself when it comes to closets, storage spaces, etc. Do you need a family room and a living room? Maybe just a great room?

Once you get rough sizes and needed spaces figured out, fit them together like a jigsaw puzzle to make most efficient use of space. Try to minimize hallways as well as travel distances – think about how many trips get made to a laundry room. How many footsteps are taken during those trips between opposite house ends? Place those utility areas where they are most convenient.

When finished, draw a box around your creation and this will give you space you need.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What grade lumber should we use for the roof purlins on a pole barn building? It appears we have run very short on our project (I think somebody made off with a bunch during the night)! Prime, #1, #2, etc.???? Building in Northeast Pennsylvania, 4ft OC trusses, purlins spaced 2ft OC. JOEL in DUPONT

DEAR JOEL: Sadly jobsites suffer from a high incidence of pilferage. When I was a post frame building contractor, we did a big project in Northern Idaho. We’d lose nearly a unit of 7/16” OSB every night until we had a fence put up around our materials! Apparently it was an overly friendly neighborhood where everyone shared without asking.

To find out appropriate grade for roof purlins you are short, refer to your engineer sealed plans provided with your building kit package. They will specify size, grade and spacing.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have an existing block and slab detached garage. It is old and well built but smaller than I want and the overhead doors are on the wrong face for my purpose. I would like to replace this 24×24 structure with a 36×60 pole barn. Removing that much concrete and then replacing it will add a good bit of cost and time to the project. Would it be possible to use the existing slab and foundation for the posts that would be on it using brackets and the rest of the posts set more traditionally in concrete or using piers and wet set brackets? ROB in ANNAPOLIS

DEAR ROB: Provided your existing concrete has adequacy to support your new building, it would be possible to use dry set anchors to mount columns in those areas. If any doubts about adequacy, you should consult with a RDP (Registered Design Professional – architect or engineer) who can evaluate your situation in person. For cost and ease of construction, I would typically recommend balance of columns being placed in augered holes.

 

This entry was posted in Footings, Lumber, Pole Barn Design, Building Styles and Designs, Pole Barn Planning, Concrete and tagged , , , , on by .
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