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Excessive Dripping, RV Garage Dimensions, and Roof Insulation

This week’s Ask The Guru addresses reader questions about the cause and possible solution to excessive dripping, the dimensions of an RV garage Hansen designed, and advice regarding putting a vapor barrier bubble blanket on the underside of the purlins before blowing insulation in attic.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I live in Pennsylvania – we just had our barn roof replaced with drip stop at the suggested of a local builder. Finished in October, 2024, November comes with cold mornings and warm days and now we have excessive dripping in our barn. We have a 140-80 long indoor attached to horse barn – dripping especially bad along the edge where the two barns meet. There is no installation guide for this material that I can find, although I see some places talk about using a heat gun to treat lap edge. I know ventilation plays a role, although no issues prior to this install. Looking of insight how what to do to fix this problem. Would love to talk with you on the phone to discuss further and pay you for your time to discuss particulars. Thanks in advance. ROBIN in RUFFS DALE

DEAR ROBIN: In order for Dripstop to work effectively takes an excellent ventilation system – one with both adequate intake and exhaust vents. Outside of ensuring ventilation is doing its job, is reducing possible sources of moisture. Obviously your horses contribute greatly to adding moisture to the air, so not much you can do about them as a source. You do need to make sure your area at least 10 feet wide around your building is sloped away at least 5%. Downspots from gutters need to discharge at least 10 feet away from building. If these measures are ineffective, you may want to contact Dripstop directly at 1.937.660.6646.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Do you have the dimensions for the RV Door, gross dimensions of the building? Tried to attach photo. Custom RV & Motorhome Pole Barn (Hansen). Thank you JOHN in WEST LAFAYETTE

DEAR JOHN: The footprint is 28′ x 42′ with a 12′ x 14′ overhead door on the taller 16′ section and a 9′ wide door on the attached side shed. As every building we provide is 100% custom designed to best meet wants and needs of our clients, we can adapt those dimensions to whatever is needed for your particular combination.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: This building is a shop and will be heated probably only when I am in it working. Should I put a vapor barrier bubble blanket on the underside of the purlins before blowing insulation in attic. RUSS in DEVILS LAKE

DEAR RUSS: Assuming your building is already up, if you have no means of controlling condensation on underside of your roof steel, you should be doing something. In order to be effective, whatever is used must be totally sealed, else you risk creating problems between roof steel and any barrier if moisture passes through and gets trapped. Your best bet – two inches of closed cell spray foam directly applied to underside of roof steel. Make sure dead attic space is properly ventilated.

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A Stand Alone Building, Drip Stop in High Dust, and Sliding Door Replacement

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about the pitfalls of trying to build a stand alone building within a steel building, drip stop use in high dust environments, and the replacement of two sliding doors in Lester Prairie.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Good evening, I’m at my wits end. We have had our barndominium in engineering for 10 months and nobody will give us the plans. Please help! We have no home and I’m afraid we won’t get one. We bought a steel structure. We have a second floor designed in. They are huffing and puffing that nobody has ever done this and all kinds of issues. They want to charge me and extra $60k for a thicker steel frame or over engineer for building a stand alone building inside. They won’t give me a price estimate on the latter but insist it’s more than the steel. But my husband don’t think they understand that the stand alone structure won’t have side force, wind force , torque and it won’t be holding up a roof, etc. so we thought pile barn engineering. Do you think we could engineer the inside like a pole barn more easily and less expensively than other proposals? I’m very stressed and desperately need help. Thank you for reading this. KAY in SHARON TWP

DEAR KAY: Sadly you are now finding out why steel structures (Pre-engineered metal buildings or PEMBs) do not necessarily lend themselves to becoming homes. It really is not practical to have to build a building, inside of a building.

Here, in my humble opinion, is your best solution. Cancel your steel structure order and get a refund. We can then design, engineer and deliver a post frame home to meet your wants and needs. When all is said and done, you will save yourself tens of thousands of dollars and be living in your new home long before your steel structure provider even begins to figure out a design solution. One of our Building Design team members will be reaching out to you to further assist.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We are planning to reskin an older AG Building 60x150x 14h,Is DripStop condensation barrier suitable for use in high dust environments , such as an unheated agricultural building with no concrete floor, no overhangs for ventilation (three sides closed in, and 4th side mostly open /no doors)Will the dust cause/create any issues with the DripStop’s effectiveness by collecting on the Drip Stop? Thank you in advance for your help! THOMAS in BRAZIL

DEAR THOMAS: In this instance, I went direct to the source for your answer – Brett Clary from Dripstop, who writes:

“Yes, our Dripstop condensation control product is primarily used in AG environments and livestock confinement all over the world. In fact, over 600,000,000 square feet of Dripstop are shipped globally every year.

Fear not, Dripstop is durable enough to stand up to dust. In truly harsh or dusty environments, you can also wash/rinse the Dripstop with a pressure washer, if needed.

Regarding your 3 enclosed sides and the 4th being open… please note that Dripstop holds 1 quart of water per 10 sq. ft.. That’s a lot of water, but it still needs to be vented off. Any condensation control product will require adequate ventilation to work properly. Let me know if you have any further questions about ventilation.

Thanks again for your question. You now have my email and phone number below. Feel free to reach out to me directly anytime.”

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Cost to replace 2 sliding doors in pole shed. 16 wide 16 high 20 wide 16 high. DUANE in LESTER

PRAIRIE DEAR DUANE: Thank you for reaching out. We stopped providing sliding door components for doors taller than 12 feet several years ago, there just was not a demand. We are also not contractors, so would have no ability to do so, even if we had appropriate parts. As you are in Lester Prairie, you might try contacting Lester Buildings 1.800.826.4439

This entry was posted in Building Interior, Building Department, Roofing Materials, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Planning, Post Frame Home, Pole Building Siding, Barndominium, Ventilation, Shouse, Insulation, Building Drainage, Shouse, Pole Barn Questions, Rebuilding Structures, floorplans, Pole Barn Design and tagged , , , , , , on by .

Florida Approved Wall Panels, Drip Stop Metal Roofing, and Widest Builds

This week the Pole Barn Guru discusses reader concerns about Florida approved board and batten panels for walls, the use of drip stop or condenstop in residential applications, and what the widest build without support poles could be.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I need a 4×8 siding material that has a Florida Product Approval Code. I was hoping to use Georgia-Pacific Plytanium T1-11, but it does not seem to be approved. What would you suggest for a board-and-batten siding that is approved? The barn is 30×48, 14′ side walls. CHRIS in ORLANDO

DEAR CHRIS: Plytanium is not a structural panel, however it could be applied as siding over an approved OSB or plywood sheathing.

JamesHardie Cempanel siding (as an example) has a Florida approval (FL13223). You can stop at your local The Home Depot ProDesk and inquire as to what other readily available options would have Florida approvals.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, my name is Martin and I am a local building inspector here in Ohio. I do residential and commercial building inspections. I recently inspected a newly built home that had Drip Stop metal installed on the roof. It was installed on 2×4 trusses 2’ on center with pine 2×4 purlins. This new build home has NO plywood or moisture barrier other than the metal drip stop roof. This is a fairly new product. I am a little confused on the proper application procedures for a residential home. Your product is wonderful and it is really catching on here in Ohio, I have it installed on my 1976 residential home, but it was installed right over the existing fiberglass shingles with wood purlins. So with that said can you send me any drawings or application procedures your company recommends for new residential home construction and also anything you recommend for installing the drip stop over an existing fiberglass shingle. Feel free to call my business cell to help explain and walk me through the process. I appreciate your time and any installation procedures your team would recommend. MARTIN in OHIO

DEAR MARTIN: Thank you for reaching out to us. Integral Condensation Controls (Dripstop, Condenstop, etc.) are wonderful products. In order to properly function, they do require proper airflow (vented eave soffits and vented ridge, in correct proportions). Installing over a roof deck (either new construction or a reroof) does defeat purpose of preventing condensation (any warm moist air from attic is prevented from contacting underside of cooler roof steel already), however it would still have benefits of reduced sound transmission and decrease in solar heat gain.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Is it cheaper to build wider rather than longer? How wide can be built without support beams? KRIS in VEEDERSBURG

DEAR KRIS: Ultimately, your most effective interior layout should override saving or spending a few extra cents per square foot. While perfectly square, is typically going to be more cost effective (due to having less wall surface), as long as your length to width ratio is under 3:1 it normally is not going to significantly impact your costs (provided you are not in an extreme wind area, or excessively tall). While I have built clearspan post frame to 100 feet in width (and had engineered designs of 140 feet), price per square foot generally starts to ramp up beyond 80 foot wide. This will, of course, depend upon applicable roof loads.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Heating, Trusses, Ventilation, Barndominium, Alternate Siding, floorplans, Building Interior, Professional Engineer, Insulation, Columns, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials and tagged , , , , , , , on by .

What to do About Possible Roof Condensation?

What to do About Possible Roof Condensation?

Reader JEFF in ADEL writes:

“Hello, I am going to order Post Frame building materials and am working on details. The question about condensation is driving me nuts as this is a big project for me and I don’t want a wet building. It will be a 30x48x11 high side walls. 8′ on center truss/posts. No overhangs on any side Concrete floor. Not heated, not insulated and not finished inside. Location in central Iowa, I plan to wrap the walls with house wrap during build, to block wind and rain. What do I do for the roof? My worry is condensation. I have 2 neighbors that have somewhat similar builds that did nothing and say they don’t have condensation problems. My vendor offers house wrap, or a radiant barrier. What I have read says don’t use house wrap on roof because it is not a vapor barrier. I agree with that assessment. My vendor does not offer a dripstop backed steel. This condensation problem seems baffling as there is so much conflicting information and everyone you ask has a bias to sell something that may or may not work and might deteriorate and might make it worse. Am I over thinking it and should I just put up the building and fix the problem later only if I have it? Or is there a simple solution? Thank you.”

Thank you for reaching out to me. All I can say is, your neighbors have been lucky.

To begin with, I would recommend you build a fully engineered building utilizing double trusses every 12 feet rather than single trusses every eight feet.

Why?

Worst part of any building is digging holes, fewer holes means less probability of hitting a Volkswagon sized rock.

Every 12 feet, means fewer columns to set (posts are not your building’s weak link), fewer connections to be made and less pieces to handle, making for a quicker installation.

Double trusses reduce needed truss bracing, as well as creating actual physical load sharing between these two members. In event of a catastrophic snow even, likelihood of both trusses having an exact same weak point and failing is about as close to zero as one can get.

Moving forward – consider adding enclosed vented overhangs on your sidewalls (if not enclosed overhangs on all four sides). You only get a single opportunity to have overhangs. Personally, I would do without doors before I would do without overhangs. You can always add doors later, but not overhangs. Overhangs will keep your building walls cleaner, as they push rain runoff and snow slide off away from your building walls. Your building will look less industrial (better for resale) and it affords an air intake for ventilation.

Combined with a vented ridge, Hansen Pole Buildings can also provide roof steel with a factory applied Integral Condensation Control. This should eliminate all possible future roof

condensation concerns.

Extended reading on Integral Condensation Controls here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/

As you have deduced housewrap is wrong product under roof steel for condensation control. It does not create a thermal break – so now condensation appears on bottom of wrap, or moisture passes through and is trapped between roof steel and barrier. Radiant barriers can work – provided all seams are completely sealed. There have been issues with some brands delaminating or facing flaking off over time. This, and difficulty installing in general, are why we stopped offering them several years ago. If you build now, ignoring possible challenges, and they occur – your only practical fix is two inches of closed cell spray foam insulation applied directly to underside of roof steel. We are also finding, other than pure animal confinement structures, most post frame buildings are being insulated at some future date. It is only prudent to take steps to have appropriate ventilation, should someone later decide insulation to be a good idea.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Building Overhangs, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Planning, Barndominium, Trusses, Ventilation, Insulation, Building Interior and tagged , , , , , , on by .

Housewrap, Roof Insulation, and Ceiling Fasteners

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about a home owner asking builder to install housewrap on the roof, the best solution to insulate underside of roof, and what the best fastener for screwing steel to ceiling or roof trusses would be.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Pole Barn Guru, thank you for your knowledge. I have a customer wanting house wrap around the exterior of a 30×40 pole barn. Is house wrap to be installed in between purlins and roof steel or will I need a radiant barrier to prevent condensation? Home owner says house wrap on the roof as well but I’m not sure if that’s the route he really wants to go. House wrap on side walls in between girts and side steel is also the best route correct?

Thank you for your kind words, they are much appreciated. Provided your client will not be doing closed cell spray foam on walls, use house wrap between girts and wall steel. For his roof, housewrap is totally incorrect, as it allows moisture to pass through and become trapped between wrap and roof steel – potentially causing premature degradation. If your client is not closed cell spray foaming directly to roof steel, then order your roof metal with an Integral Condensation Control factory applied (Dripstop, Condenstop or similar) https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/. If roof steel has already been ordered (again assuming no closed cell spray foam being applied), then you do need some sort of a thermal break – such as a well-sealed radiant barrier.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi Mike, I built a 32’X40’X12′ pole building, (Shop) I used 1 1/2″ foam board on the inside walls, (on the inside of the girts) I can’t decide how I should insulate the underside of the roof. I have had a couple Spray Foam guy’s quote it , that’s pricy. Of course, the best R Value etc. at the most reasonable price is what I am looking for. In some of your post you have mentioned Rockwool that has gotten my attention. I see they make it up to R30. One thing that sticks in my mind is, my builder suggested not to use an insulation that will give insects a place to live. What would be your suggestion for underside of Roof insulation. Thank you. JIM in SPRING HILL

DEAR JIM: If your building has no current provision for controlling condensation on underside of roof steel, then two inches of closed cell spray foam applied directly to steel is your best insulation option. If you desire a greater R value, you can go thicker, or add open cell.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What screw is best for installing metal panels on the ceiling to wood trusses. MICHAEL in WENTZVILLE

DEAR MICHAEL: Most people are using #9 or #10 diameter 1″ screws. If you have ceiling framing 24 inches on center and want to utilize strength of ceiling liner panels to help transfer wind shear loads, then 1-1/2″ long diaphragm screws would be a better design solution.

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Uncategorized, Insulation, Building Interior, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Heating, Roofing Materials, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Post Frame Home and tagged , , , , , , , , on by .

Condensation Prevention, Sound Proofing, and Snow Loads

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru tackles reader questions about condensation prevention by placing foam board over the top of 2×4 purlins, options for sound proofing a post frame home, and if 2×4 flat purlins can hold a specific snow load.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am planning a pole barn; the roof will have 2×4 purlins spaced 24″. I plan on putting 1/2″ foam board (faced on both sides) over the purlins with the seams taped. Then putting metal panels over the foam board. Will this be sufficient to prevent condensation from dripping within from the roof? JIM in MIDLAND

DEAR JIM: Good news and bad news…. while your proposed solution will likely take care of possible condensation issues, it is structurally unsound. Post frame (pole barn) buildings rely upon shear strength of steel roofing and siding in order to remain stable. When you add in even a half-inch gap of non-rigid material (foam board) between framing and steel skin, you greatly reduce (or eliminate) shear strength of your steel panels. Even if your building were to remain standing, shifting of steel panels with small diameter (#9 or #10) screws will cause slots to form around screw shanks, eventually causing leakage.

You would be best served to order roof steel with an Integral Condensation Control (read more on I.C.C. here https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/) factory applied. It will be less costly, easier to install and not cause negative structural issues.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Afternoon! Thanks for all the great info in your blog. It has really helped me plan my new home. I have one question: I’m having a post frame home built and am wondering about soundproofing. The roof(s) will be steel directly on purlins with a radiant barrier in between. The conditioned space will have R-60 blown-in fiberglass above it so I’m not worried about that. What I am concerned with are the front and rear porches. The front will have a, 8″ shed roof porch and the rear will have a 16×16 gable-roof screened porch. Both will have finished ceilings, steel and knotty pine respectively. I’d like to be able to sit under either when it’s raining and it not be loud. What would you suggest I do to mitigate the drum effect in an uninsulated porch? I’ve thought about using rockwool batts, maybe mass-loaded vinyl, or even painting the underside of the steel with liquid rubber before the panels are screwed down. Any advice? Thanks much. PETER in HUDSON

I am pleased my information has proven helpful to you. I would consider one of two options – installing steel in these two areas over solid sheathing (OSB or plywood) with 30# felt or a synthetic underlayment, or using two inches of closed cell spray foam applied directly to underside of roof steel. Either of these should assist in mitigating sound.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: In an area with a 50 p.s.i. snow load ground rating and trusses 4′ o.c., can 2×4’s 2ft. o.c. be laid flat for roof purlins? STEVE in WYOMING

DEAR STEVE: Maybe – this will depend upon numerous factors including (but not limited to):

Risk Category of building
Roof slope
Wind Exposure
Roofing material
Snow retention systems
If building is heated or not
Available grade of lumber

Ultimately this decision should be made by whomever your engineer is who is sealing your building plans. Special care should also be taken to insure adequacy of purlins in drift zones (closest to ridge), where purlins may need to be closer spaced, higher grade and/or larger dimension material.

Also – ground snow loads (Pg) are typically expressed in p.s.f. (pounds per square foot), rather than p.s.i. A p.s.i. of 50 would equate to 7200 p.s.f

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Professional Engineer, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Post Frame Home, Constructing a Pole Building, Barndominium, Trusses and tagged , , , , , , , on by .

Condensation Control, Mother/Daughter Addition, and Vapor Barrier for Roof

Today the Pole Barn Guru answers readers questions about condensation control in a small garage with a gravel floor, the possibility of adding a “mother-daughter” unit to her house, and “ribbed vapor barrier” for a shed roof.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Recently purchased a metal garage kit, 24X26. No insulation. Two garaged doors. Gravel floor with plastic under grave. I am getting condensation on some days, that makes my cars, etc have like a dew on them.

My rib looks to be 1” and 7” between ribs. How do you install a wall vent with the ribs? JODY in ALTON

Machine ShopDEAR JODY: First step is to take care of your source. Pour a concrete slab on grade with a well sealed 10-15mil vapor barrier underneath. As you have no thermal break between your warm moist air inside building and roof steel, have two inches of closed cell spray foam insulation applied to underside of roofing. You would be better served to vent eaves and ridge, than just gable vents. If gable vents are your choice, look for vinyl vents with a snap ring as they can be installed on ribbed steel siding.

Using inward vent base edges as a guide, mark area to be cut on endwall steel INSIDE, make hole cut square with steel sheet (vertical cut lines parallel to steel ribs). Cut hole with appropriate tools.
Push vent base through hole in steel from inside.
Note word “TOP” on base when positioning. Vents installed with top side in any direction other than up will allow water to leak into building.
While holding vent base in place, snap face into base from steel exterior by pressing firmly (this takes two people).

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m interested in building an attached mother/daughter addition to my home. Do you have plans for that? Approximately 600-700sq ft. NANCY in MONROE TOWNSHIP

Floor PlanDEAR NANCY: Thank you for your interest in a new Hansen Pole Building. Every building we provide is custom designed to best meet the wants, needs and budget of our clients. We offer a floor plan design service for folks just like you: http://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/post-frame-floor-plans/?fbclid=IwAR2ta5IFSxrltv5eAyBVmg-JUsoPfy9hbWtP86svOTPfG1q5pGmfhA7yd5Q 

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We are having a 50×30 all metal building. We were advised to get ribbed vapor barrier for roof. We have searched everywhere. Is it called something else? SHANNON in OLEAN

DEAR SHANNON: We are also not familiar with any product known as a “ribbed vapor barrier”. We would normally recommend use of roof steel with an ICC factory attached (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/). If this is not an option (or if you are using closed cell spray foam directly to underside of roof steel), next choice would be a radiant reflective barrier – look for six foot wide rolls with an adhesive pull strip attached for ease of installation.

 

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Ceiling Insulation, Drafting Capabilities, and 24″ On Center Framing

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about “ceiling insulation” for a roof rebuild, the capabilities of our drafting and proprietary pricing program, and “what percentage of pole buildings are 24″ on center?”

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: The birds have destroyed the front half of the ceiling insulation in our 40 x 60 pole building. We need a new roof and we plan to take out all the insulation when the roof is done. We don’t know what else to do because if we leave the insulation in the back half of the ceiling, the birds may destroy that also. What do you think? SHARON in STERLING

DEAR SHARON: Typically when I hear people talk about birds having destroyed pole building insulation I think of what is commonly known as Metal Building Insulation. Usually this is a thin layer of fiberglass with a white vinyl face – and once birds get started into it, there is no turning back https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/09/spot-problems-with-this-pole-barn-photo/

If you are doing a reroof, to control condensation your should look at ordering roof steel with a factory applied I.C.C. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I was curious on what program you use to make your plans? Does it do take off and quotes with the drawings? Can you design the interior also the exterior to make a shouse? TIM in NORFOLK

instant pricingDEAR TIM: Always a pleasure to hear from a “lumber guy”. Our blueprints are actually drafted individually on AutoCAD, however we are gradually transitioning to where most fairly straightforward work will be automated from our trademarked and proprietary “Instant Pricing” system. We searched everywhere trying to find a computer program able to actually accurately do a structural analysis of post frame buildings and found none existed. We created our own and added to it abilities to do real time quotes for any climactic condition and anywhere in America. Our program does quotes, invoices, material takeoffs, creates purchase orders and interfaces with our client data base.

While it can do interior walls, we opted to create a full service program for shouse and barndominium plans with a real person interacting via screen sharing so clients can watch their homes appear before their very eyes from the comfort of their homes.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What percent of pole barns are on 24″ centers? BRUCE in SXARTZ CREEK

DEAR BRUCE: There are numerous components of post frame (pole barn) buildings often placed 24 inches on center. Among these could be wall girts, roof purlins, sometimes roof trusses (most often seen with shingled roofs), floor joists or floor trusses over crawl spaces, basements and for second or third floors. One of fully engineered post frame building design’s beauties is there is no obligation to be at a specific spacing and materials can be utilized for their full structural capacities – making them extremely cost efficient.

 

 

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Concrete Considerations from the PBG!

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Is concrete included in price? TRACEY in SUMTER

DEAR TRACEY: No, we do not include concrete in the price and here is why:

Most familiar, as well as most available is the Sakrete® general purpose High Strength Concrete Mix. When mixed per the manufacturer’s instructions, this mix affords a compressive strength of 4,000 psi (pounds per square inch) at 28 days.

The instructions are: Empty the contents into a mortar box, wheelbarrow, or mechanical mixer. When mixing by hand, form a crater for adding water.  Add water a little at a time.  Avoid a soupy mix.  Excess water reduces strength and durability and can cause cracking. A 60 lb. bag should be mixed with three quarts of water, an 80 lb. bag four quarts.

Now the realities of using bagged concrete for post frame building footings….

treated postIt is not unusual to have concrete encasements of 24 inches or larger in diameter and 18 inches or more in depth, in order to prevent building settling and uplift issues. One hole this size would take 4.71 cubic feet, or about 700 lbs. of concrete! Even a very small building with 18 inches of diameter and depth takes 2.65 cubic feet or about 400 lbs. of concrete.

With either 60 or 80 lb. bags, it is going to take a lot of bags! An average building could easily have 20 posts, and if looking at 700 lbs. of concrete per post, we are talking about 7 TONS of concrete (3-1/2 yards).

Ignoring the huge number of bags involved, there are some other realities.

Ever looked at the pallets of readi-mix bags at the lumberyard? Take a peek, next time. Notice how many of them are broken or leaking.

Due to weight, it may very well mean another delivery and another delivery charge. Trucks do not run for free.

Bags can (and will) break when being handled during delivery, unloading and being moved around the jobsite. It is going to happen, just plan on it.

From experience, lots of projects are not begun immediately after delivery. It is not unusual for delays of weeks, or even months before actual construction begins. Improperly stored, bags can get wet or absorb moisture and become solid before time for use. This equals a total waste of money, other than the chunks of concrete make for solid backfill.

Then there are the builders who insist upon throwing the entire bag (usually including the bag) into the hole. Their idea is ground water will cause the readi-mix to harden. Why does this not resemble the manufacturer’s instructions?

Readi-mix must be mixed thoroughly and evenly. How does mixing over 200- 60 lb. bags of Sackrete® by hand sound? Add too much water (three quarts exactly per 60 lb. sack) and the strength is reduced.

Use too much? As holes are always perfectly round (not), it is going to happen.

Save time, effort and money. Often all three can be saved by having the local pre-mix concrete company deliver concrete for holes (even if a “short load” fee is charged), as opposed to mixing on site.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am building a 36 x 40 pole barn and I’m on a grade that drops approximately 4′ over the span of the building footprint. A home builder friend, a structural engineer, and my concrete guy have recommended traditional foundation with wet set permacolumns, but the builder I’ve contracted with wants to set columns on footers 3′ to 5′ in the ground and not use the permacolumns. The pole barn builder doesn’t think I need a retaining wall and should just have an excavator level what i need with a slope off the back. Seems a retaining wall in the back is better, which my concrete guy will pour, but still recommends foundation to eliminate frost heave. Use for building is car storage and shop with a lift.
Thank you in advance for your time and help. CHRIS in ST. LOUIS

DEAR CHRIS: This reminds me of a joke I once heard – a home builder friend, a structural engineer and a concrete guy enter a bar…….

Oops, kind of off track!

Some of the answer is going to depend upon what you want your yard to look like.

In any case – the actual pad of the building is going to need to be properly compacted (emphasis on proper) so those costs will be fairly even in any case. You’ll want to be reading about proper site preparation and compaction here (it is lengthy): https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/11/site-preparation/

What might appear to be the least expensive would be to just order columns long enough to get the required embedment depth as shown on the engineered plans, then fill afterwards, sloping away from the building. In order to keep the fill from sloughing off, it will probably result in a slope next to your building which will stretch out as far as 20 feet. You could easily invest in several hundred yards of fill!! If you can live with the look, might be the answer.

Building on top of a foundation – this is going to be the most expensive and certainly not the choice I would probably be making. It is also going to be tougher to build upon, due to the height of the walls plus the foundation.

Which leaves – build a retaining wall. I like this idea. Columns do not have to be longer (as long as fill is properly compacted).

By the way – there is no reason for ANY of these versions to frost heave as long as the site has been properly prepared. Read more about how to avoid frost heave issues here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/10/preventing_frost_heaves_in_pole_building_construction/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How much is the drip stop application for labor/material? Usually it comes already attached to the metal paneling. Do you figure it by square feet? JOSH in MANKATO

DEAR JOSH: For materials you are going to be looking somewhere in the neighborhood of 53 cents per square foot of roof surface. As a builder, if you are anywhere it is typically windy, I am going to give you a decent discount on my labor for having invested in it, because I don’t have to fight rolls of insulation flapping in the breeze.

 

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Pole Building How To Guides, Concrete, Footings, Building Drainage, Columns, Insulation and tagged , , , , , , on by .
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