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Frost Heave and Rodents, a Storage/House Combo, and Dead Attic Space

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about prevention of frost heave and rodents getting in to a post frame garage, advice for a storage/house combo in Oregon, and how some buildings can have “dead attic space.”

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am concerned about frost heave and rodents getting into a post and frame garage. How high off the ground should the bottom girt be off the ground to prevent damage and frost heave and what is the best method to keep mice from getting in under the bottom girt. Should galvanized screen or maybe soffit metal be buried in the ground? Would pebble stone be a better choice along the building sides to minimize frost heave rather than gravel or clay soil? Your advice is appreciated, WALLY in KAKABEKA FALLS

DEAR WALLY: Bottom of your bottom girt (UC-4A pressure preservative treated splash plank) should be 3-1/2″ below top of your finished concrete slab on grade.

Here are a series of articles about what causes frost heave and how to avoid it:

Pole Building Structures: What Causes Frost Heaves?

Beat Frost the Easy Way…Post Construction Drainage

Preventing Frost Heaves in Pole Building Construction

Here is how to handle rodents: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2021/03/rascally-rodents/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We are considering building a pole barn to store hay and equipment that also has an apartment area within. What would you suggest we build? We live in Central Oregon and we can get substantial snowfall as we butt up against the Cascade Mountain Range. We have horses and cows that we will be storing hay for, a tractor, two 4 wheelers, a couple of vehicles and two trailers. Thank you in advance for your assistance. JONI in BEND

DEAR JONI: One 4th of July we downhill snow skied Mount Bachelor’s summit before lunch, then hit The Deschutes River for white water rafting. We have provided hundreds of engineered post frame buildings to our clients in Oregon, so we know your area well.

Before getting into a snow load discussion, I would be remiss if I failed to share some pitfalls of adjoining living quarters to where animals are housed. Dust Rodents

Noise Odors

Fire separation – usually takes a two-hour firewall, meaning you have to go outside to go between uses. Cost of Insurance – fire potential is an issue Resale Value – appeals to a very small percentage of people, for reasons listed above. I would strongly encourage you to look at two individual structures. I will ask one of our Building Designers to reach out to you, to best assist you in design of your ideal building(s).

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I work in commercial buildings a lot, that have similarities to pole barn design. Some are wood and steel, some are all steel framed. But none of them have spray foam, they’re either rockwool or fiberglass insulation. And ALL of their roofs are closed dead spaced with no venting at all. In lieu of your reply, how do they get away with this? Why can’t I emulate what they’re doing to some extent? Thanks again! DAVE in GALES CREEK

DEAR DAVE: These commercial buildings are utilizing what is loosely termed as “Metal Building Insulation”. This is typically a fiberglass batt, bonded to an air impermeable air barrier (blocks water and air). This facing must have an air permanence equal to or less than 0.02 L/s-m^2 at 75 Pa. pressure differential tested according to ASTM E 2178. All seams must be tightly sealed. This can be accomplished where roof purlins are typically every five feet and interior plane of underside of roof is not interrupted by members such as truss webs.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Design, Constructing a Pole Building, Barndominium, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Ventilation, Building Interior and tagged fire separation, snow loads, rodents, shouse, equipment storage, frost heave, hay storage on November 29, 2023 by admin.

Hairpins? Best Eave Height, and the Cost of a House…

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am installing re-bar hairpins prepping for a pour in a Hansen pole barn. My question is about the inside poles. I have on rebar per outside pole. Do i put two rebar hairpins on the inside poles?

Thanks ALCUIN in LAVEEN

DEAR ALCUIN: The purpose of the rebar hairpins is to maintain the columns in a “constrained” condition. Columns with concrete on less than all four sides would require the hairpins to keep them from separating from the slab on grade in the direction(s) away from the floor – which would cause undue deflection at grade. Interior columns which are surrounded by concrete on all sides would not require the hairpins in order to meet with the requirements of a constrained condition.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How tall at the eaves is needed for a pole barn so a squeeze can be used to stack hay regular hay bales? SANDRA in CORNING

DEAR SANDRA: In the end the required height is going to depend upon the equipment you own. The great majority of what I would regard as ‘serious’ at their hay storage are using eave heights of 19 to 21 feet in order to clear the trusses.

One big consideration for hay storage is preventing condensation from the underside of the roof steel. Every good hay barn should either have reflective insulation or I.C.C. (Integral Condensation Control – https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/03/integral-condensation-control/) in the roof.

You will also get the most bang for your investment by loading from one or both eave sides, as opposed to loading from an end. In some instances, loading from the ends can work, provided there is an interior wall running across the narrow (width) direction of the barn half way between the ends.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I just need to know a round about price for a 2000 square foot home. Just your basic 3 bedroom 2 bath. With garage please. Thank you. STEPHANIE in STEELE

DEAR STEPHANIE: This is about the same as asking about how much a new car is going to cost? Do you want to drive a compact or an SUV? The possibilities of either are virtually endless.

With a post frame building being used as a home there are certain features which in my humble opinion are a must to include. Among these would be:

Built over a crawl space (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/03/crawl-space/) – my knees just are not happy living on top of concrete.

Bookshelf style wall girts to provide a deep insulation cavity in the walls.

Use of a house wrap (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/11/house-wrap/).

Raised heel trusses (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/raised-heel-trusses/).

Generally you will be looking at $15-20 per square foot for a nicely configured building shell delivered to your clear level site in the lower 48 states.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Structure, Concrete, Budget, Pole Barn Homes and tagged eave height, hay storage, rebar hairpins, Hairpins, House price on August 14, 2017 by admin.

The Triple Whammy: Hay Storage in a Pole Barn

This story from FOX 47 News in Lansing, Michigan on September 20:

“Strong winds spread a fire from a burning trash pit to a pole barn in Stockbridge Township Wednesday evening.

The Stockbridge Deputy Fire Chief tells us the pit was about 40 feet from the barn. The owner called 911 around 5:45pm when he saw smoke. There were several horses in the barn, all of which escaped.

Some farm equipment stored inside may have been damaged.

Firefighters had to use a backhoe to remove burning hay from the barn before they could put the fire out. Nobody was injured and the fire did not spread to the surrounding corn fields.”

In my humble opinion, the burning of this pole barn had absolutely nothing to do with the pole barn itself, but everything to do with the “Triple Whammy” put on it by the building’s owner.

Whammy number one….having a trash pit for burning within 40 feet from a building to begin with.

Whammy number two….burning in aforementioned trash pit when strong winds were present.

And…the envelope please….Whammy number three….hay storage inside of a barn with animals and farm equipment.

Without the first two whammies, the hay storage alone is an issue. In the above story, winds drove flames into the hay stored within the pole barn. However a bigger risk lies in those stacks of hay. Lives have been lost and hay crops destroyed because of fires caused by spontaneous combustion. Any time you have hay storage with above 20-25% moisture content, spontaneous combustion may occur.

Hay which is stored when too wet will heat rapidly. If heat loss is restricted, the internal temperature of the bales will rise. As the temperature rises above 130°F, a chemical reaction occurs and may sustain itself. This reaction does not require oxygen, but the flammable gases produced are at a temperature above their ignition point. These gases will ignite when they come in contact with the air.

Besides the obvious (don’t store overly wet hay), it is also prudent to not store hay in the same building with animals and equipment. The premiums paid for fire insurance can be potentially reduced by minimizing the risks.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Planning and tagged wet hay, burning pole barn, hay storage, pole barn fire on October 5, 2012 by admin.