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a BONUS PBG for Friday, May 31st — Column Spacing, Raised Floors, and a Self-Build

a BONUS PBG for Friday, May 31st — Column Spacing, Raised Floors, and a Self-Build

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have spoken to my architect and he is saying to do my column spacing 8′ with truss every 4′. I have looked at your videos and several other videos. I noticed 10′ or 12′ Columns with double truss is more than enough. This is going to be my house for now and later turn into my garage when my actual house it built. The size is 30x60x12. Also I will be using shingles for my roof since my HOA doesn’t allow metal. I am wanting to be efficient and save money but also have this built safely. ANGEL in SEALY

DEAR ANGEL: In our country, there are several places where post frame standard is just as your architect describes, however this is not necessarily most efficient for use of materials, structural sufficiency or ease of construction. We have provided roughly a hundred fully engineered post-frame buildings to our clients in Texas and I can assure you, columns every 12 feet with double trusses works admirably. While shingled roofs do not have longevity like steel roofing, we have clients who opt for this option.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I read your article about raised floors in post frame homes. I live in a flood prone area an was considering something like this. Do you have any other information or details? https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/03/raised-floors-post-frame-homes/ SEAN in PRAIRIEVILLE

DEAR SEAN: Thank you for your interest. One of our team members will be reaching out to you shortly, as we do need some very specific information in regards to your building site. This will include actual elevation of site, as well as your potential flood data.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hey there! I’m wanting to self build a 50×70 or a 48×72 which is probably more cost savings. 16′ height and I’m leaning towards 10′ spacing. It’s a 3 sides equipment storage building. One of the 70′ sides being open. I need any help you can give on post spacing, 3ply or 4ply , truss spacing and a double header if I’m not locking into the post with the truss because the spacing won’t allow. I’m open to any suggestions. ERIK in SEYMOUR

DEAR ERIK: We do offer a 5% discount on buildings with multiples of 6′ in width and 12′ in length (read more here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2024/04/13-can-be-very-fortunate/). You will probably find columns every 12 feet on your open sidewall to be most ideal for equipment storage – as trying to maneuver even a full sized pickup or SUV through 9’8″ between posts can prove a good way to lose a mirror. Our typical engineered design is going to place trusses directly aligned with columns, so dealing with headers between columns becomes a non-issue. Your Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer Cory will be working with you to make sure you get your best possible value for your investment.

 

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Planning, Budget, floorplans, Columns, Lofts, Lumber, Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Building Styles and Designs, Building Department, Barndominium and tagged , , , , , , , , on by .

Best Practice for Closing and Insulating 2×10 Headers

Best Practice for Closing and Insulating 2×10 Headers
Reader DAVE in VIROQUA writes:

“Best practice for closing and insulating 2×10 headers. My pole barn has building wrap then closed cell spray foamed walls. Ceiling not yet installed but want to use blown in fiberglass with vapor barrier. The spray foam on walls goes up to the bottom edge of the outer header. Before the ceiling is installed and insulated what is your suggestion to close and insulate the double 2×10 header to prevent moisture issues etc.? My walls will be finished off at a later date. Building has vented soffits and ridge vent. Roof panels have drip guard on underside as well. The post framing is laminated 2×6-3ply. Thank you.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru pens:
One of my pet peeves of what I refer to as 4 & 8 buildings (trusses every 4′, columns every 8′) is when truss carriers (headers between columns) are applied to column faces, rather than being notched in. Rarely are fasteners sufficient to be able to resist loads imposed by those once every hundred years snow storms, resulting in roofs lowered to top of vehicle levels. 

Besides connection challenges, it further reduces actual amount of usable interior space. As an example, builders/providers will set outside of exterior (barn style) girts at Building Lines, and to finish interior requires adding yet another set of face mounted wall girts. This ends up with wall framing 8-1/2″ thick. On a 24′ wide building, if 1/2″ gypsum wallboard is used, interior finished dimension ends up being only 22’6″!

In answer to your question, you’ll want to enclose above double 2×10. This can be done by cutting strips of whatever low cost sheet good you can find (OSB, plywood, etc.) and installing them between trusses on top of truss carriers. Fill cavity between 2x10s with closed cell spray foam.

Hopefully you will not have issues with your current closed cell spray foam applied to a weather resistant barrier. Best practice is to spray directly to inside of steel (please read more here https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/04/spray-foam-insulation-3/)

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions and tagged , , , , , , on by .

Screw Penetration, Truss Carrier Requirements, and Roof Insulation

Today’s Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about screw penetration into decking/substrate, header aka truss carrier requirements, and a proper roof insulation solution.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Should the screws for exposed fastener metal panel roofing COMPLETELY penetrate the 1/2″ plywood decking/substrate? STEVE in WARREN

DEAR STEVE: For through screws, they should not only completely penetrate any substrate, but also at least an inch into underlying purlins. Relying upon screws into decking only could prove to be a failure looking for a place to happen in a severe wind situation.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: On a 14’ x20’ building with 4×6 post 8’ tall what are the requirements for the header beam or beams? Can I use two 2x10s one out and one inside? TIM in STATE ROAD

Ask The Pole Barn GuruDEAR TIM: Header beam (aka truss carrier) requirements can be determined by a Registered Professional Engineer and are based upon this formula:

(Roof live and dead loads) x (1/2 span of truss + any eave overhang in feet) x (column spacing in feet squared)

Divided by

8 x Sm (Section modulus of proposed beam) x Fb (Fiberstress in bending of proposed beam) x Cd (Duration of Load)

If resultant is less than 1, then beam is okay.

Here is an example, based upon assumption your building is in a minimal snow area, steel roofing over purlins, no or light weight ceiling) columns are every 10 feet, one foot overhangs and available lumber is 2×10 SYP #2

(20 psf + 10 psf) x (14’/2 + 1’) x 10’^2 / 8 x 21.3906 (Sm of a 2×10) x 800 x 1.15 = 0.15 <= 1

For sake of this example, a single 2×10 #2 SYP would be adequate in bending. It may not be adequate for meeting required bearing area (can be confirmed with truss manufacturer).

Beams and connections should also be verified for adequacy against uplift forces, as well as deflection.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m about to build my ‘Miracle Truss’ building which uses steel trusses with lumber purlins/girts. I have a concrete slab with 2″ Styrofoam and radiant heat to provide some warmth in the winter. I’m thinking of using foil/single bubble vapor barrier in between the roof sheeting and wood purlins. In the future I’d like to add bat insulation to the inside of the roof. For the walls I’m not sure if I should use a foil radiant film – non-permeable…or if I should instead use house wrap like ‘Tyvek’. Again, as time and $$ allows I’d like to add bat insulation and maybe OSB half way up the walls. I’d appreciate your professional opinion on how best to ‘wrap’ my building and also ‘future proof’ it in case I happen to win the lottery and can afford to fully insulate it someday. Thank you. RICK in HILLSBORO

DEAR RICK: Code will not allow you to place batt insulation between your purlins unless you have at least an inch of continuous airflow above from eave to ridge. Impossible to do given orientation of roof purlins.

I would use two inches of closed cell spray foam directly to underside of your roof steel. Later, you could fill balance of cavity between purlins with unfaced rock wool, or open cell spray foam. For your walls, use a Weather Resistant Barrier (aka house wrap) and you can add either Kraft faced batts or unfaced batts with a 6mil vapor barrier on the interior at a later date.

 

This entry was posted in Professional Engineer, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Heating, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Building How To Guides, Trusses, Ventilation and tagged , , , , , , on by .

Remodel or Not?

Remodel or Build New?

I am as guilty as most – my initial reaction is always to remodel, rather than build new. Even when it makes no practical or economic sense.

Reader JIM in LAWTON is working through one of these situations. He writes: 

“I have a 30 x 40 pole barn 32 years old. I want to take the 4/12 pitch trusses off and add bonus room trusses with a 10/12 pitch and a shingled roof, it is now metal. The new trusses will free span the 30’. My concern is the 4×6 posts holding everything up. They are 8’ on center, 54” down. I met with the building inspector and he inspected the poles and footers on two poles, one on each side of the building. The footers are a concrete block 4x8x16, poles are 4×6. I drove two nails in the two exposed posts 6” and 12” down and the centers didn’t seem soft at all. The building inspector says go ahead and beef up the headers and build up. I don’t want any issues. I am doing the work myself. Do you feel there is anything else I should do to confirm the posts will support the additional weight? The room is going to be an extra bedroom. Anything else meaning contact a structural engineer and pay big bucks for their opinion. Thanks, Jim.”

You are aware your remodel will be more expensive than erecting a brand new building?

Chances are good your existing building was built as a low risk building, if it was engineered and permitted at all. Adding in a bedroom makes it a higher risk building, increasing design loads for both wind and snow. From your limited information provided, your columns will not be large enough, footing diameters will need to be increased, headers (truss carriers) will need to be increased to support probably at least a load twice as much as what was there.

If you do indeed decide to move forward as you suggest, you would be making a grave error to not have an engineer inspect what you have and make recommendations to bring your existing building up to current Code and to be adequate to support your remodeled design.

 Mike the Pole Barn Guru

P.S. Due to shingles’ very short lifespan, I would recommend you go with a steel roof.

This entry was posted in Trusses, Footings, Professional Engineer, Lumber, Columns, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Building Department, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Planning and tagged , , , , , , on by .

Adding a Second Floor to an Existing Pole Building

Adding a Second Floor in an Existing Pole Building

second floorMore than one pole (post frame) building owner has an idea of adding a second floor inside their existing building. Or, they plan a new post frame building with an idea of a future second floor being incorporated.

This apparently simple proposition has no simplicity involved.

Reader RYAN in HAMPSTEAD writes:

“Good morning,I have a 30×40 pole building, and I’m looking to add a partial second floor.  The posts are 8x8s, set at 8′ OC.  I’ve attached a layout for trusses that I received from another vendor, based on specs I provided.  The exact indoor measurement is about 29’11” outside to outside of the 8x8s (to the exterior sheeting).  The distance between the posts is about 28’6″.  So the joists should be field trimmable or around 29’8″ to carry from ledger to ledger.  I do not currently have the ledger/ribbon boards purchased or installed.

The trusses will be clear span, and the total floor space will be 30’x24′ with a cutout for a staircase.  Can you send a quote for this?  The shipping zip is 21074.

Thanks.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru Writes:

Hansen Pole Buildings does not manufacture trusses, so we weren’t able to solve this portion of Ryan’s challenge. However, there are some considerations anyone should consider when looking towards a second floor being inserted in an existing post frame building.

Before moving forward, an EOR (Engineer of Record) should have originally designed your building. This person should be consulted with, as a second floor places a tremendous load upon wall columns and may overload footings (not to mention columns themselves), possibly causing columns to sink. Headers (also known as ledgers/ribbon boards) as well as attachment of floor trusses to them also need to be engineer designed. If somehow an engineer did not design your building, a competent one should be engaged to verify adequacy or design a repair.

Don’t be pennywise and pound foolish when it comes to structural changes involving a second floor, mezzanine or loft – lives you save may be your own, or those of a loved one!

 

 

 

 

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Trusses, Professional Engineer and tagged , , , , , , on by .
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