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Insulating a Shed, Addition of Eave Light Panels, and a Small Well Building

Today’s Ask the Guru answers reader questions about insulating a shed used for vehicle storage and a “workshop to piddle in,” the addition of eave light panels to a structure, and if it is possible to build a small building to house a well.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Thank you in advance for your time to answer my question! I have a 30×40 x12 pole building that I want to insulate. This will be used to store my vehicles in and to have a workshop to piddle in. Want to have a mini split system to heat or cool only when I’m out in the shop. I have Tyvek between the metal siding and purlins on the walls. I have a ridge vent the entire length of the building with the condensation barrier under the metal roof panels. I just started to frame my walls 16″ OC for batt insulation and was going to put up metal panels on the ceiling and lay batt insulation on that. Is this ok and/or should I add vapor barriers anywhere. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks again MARSHALL in SALISBURY

DEAR MARSHALL: You will need to have an appropriately sized air intake (either eave or gable vents) in order to prevent possible mold and/or mildew in your attic. Use unfaced batts (Rockwool would be my preference, with fiberglass second). Your walls will need a vapor barrier, ceiling will not.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I would like to put in polycarbonate “windows for my eve light on a 36×56 pole barn. The light vents will be on the east side of the pole barn. I would like to do this myself. Do you have a simple how to or a video? These are NOT on the roof. HOLLY in MILACA

HOLLY: We can provide 19 pieces of 3′ net width coverage by 3 feet tall polycarbonate panels, as well as steel “z” flashing needed for your transition from polycarbonate to steel siding and appropriate screws to attach. Along with this, you will get a Chapter from our Construction Manual to detail installation. To save on delivery costs, we can have these all available for you at our Browns Valley, MN facility. Please reach out to Materials@HansenPoleBuildings.com for pricing.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Have residential well, need a small building has this been done? CHRIS in ELMGROVE

DEAR CHRIS: Yes, it has been. Post frame (pole) buildings start to lose economy of scale as footprint dimensions decrease. Below roughly 24 feet square, other forms of construction may prove to be more cost effective. A factor playing into this is most jurisdictions exempt from building permits structures below a minimal square footage.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Barndominium, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Planning, Building Interior, Budget, Skylights, Lumber, Insulation, Pole Barn Heating and tagged rock wool, heated shop, insulation, residential well building, polycarbonate eave lights, Ventilation, eave lights on December 11, 2024 by Rick Ochs.

Adding Insulation, Financing, and Adding a Ceiling

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about options for insulation of an existing steel building, financing options for a post frame home, and adding a ceiling to an existing barn.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a preexisting steel building with no insulation. I am looking for affordable methods to insulate the building in our climate. There are swings in humidity and temperature as well as a fairly long winter. The tin is attached to Perkins that are 24′ on center. The distance between the red structural frame varies from almost 7′ to 10′ PETER in MINNEAPOLIS

DEAR PETER: You really only have two realistic options and both involve closed cell spray foam.

Your building is in Climate Zone 6. In order to prevent condensation, 35% or more of your insulation should be closed cell spray foam applied directly to steel siding and roofing. You can go all closed cell, however your will find this to be painfully expensive. By using spray foam against the steel, then filling your cavity with Rockwool batts, you can reduce costs without compromising performance.

For your roof R-60, this could be done with 3″ of closed cell plus R-39 of batts. Walls, you could go R-20 (basically 3″) of closed cell and be done with it. For mixed systems, you can do R-10 of closed cell (1-1/2″) along with R-15 batts.

You should also plan upon having to mechanically dehumidify your space.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello. Looking to build a barndo home in north Georgia. I’m looking for financing the structure. Do you guys offer financing at Hansen? If so, does this include the concrete pad/foundation? Thank you for your time! BRIANNA in DALTON

DEAR BRIANNA: Thank you for your interest in a new Hansen Pole Building. In answer to your questions – yes we have financing available and it can be used for more than just what we provide. www.HansenPoleBuildings.com/financing/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Have a 40×60 barn trusses have 2×8 top and bottom chord set on 10 ft centers live I deep so Illinois. Question is how is best way to frame in ceiling to put up metal might put small amount of cellulose blown it do not care which direction metal runs. Thanks in advance ROBERT in VIENNA

DEAR ROBERT: Most “barn” trusses are not designed to support a ceiling. You will want to look on your building’s engineered truss drawings for the BCDL (Bottom Chord Dead Load). If it is a value less than five (5) psf, then a ceiling should probably not be installed. If it is five or more, then you should add framing joist hung between bottom chords to properly support a steel ceiling. In all likelihood, 2×6 #2 and better every four feet should prove adequate. Avoid using cellulose insulation, as it is heavy and has chemicals in it that can react negatively with steel.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Design, Barndominium, Pole Barn Planning, Shouse, Trusses, Ventilation, Rebuilding Structures, Building Interior, Budget and tagged spray foam insulation, Post Frame Home, insulation, post frame financing, ceilings, ceilng joists on December 4, 2024 by Rick Ochs.

ADU’s, Best Insulation, and a Post Frame Home

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about building an attached ADU (additional dwelling unit) with a shared wall, the Guru’s thoughts on the best option to insulate a space, and whether specific design choices are possible in a post frame home.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We are planning to build a shop with an attached ADU (additional dwelling unit) for my mother to live in. Can the ADU with a monolithic slab share a wall with a pole-barn, that will also have a slab floor? CARL in SHERIDAN

DEAR CARL: Certainly can. Unless the shop is no more than 1000 square feet, you will have to have no less than a one-hour fire separation between them. This can easily be accomplished with each side of wall having 5/8″ Type X gypsum wallboard applied. Both shop and ADU can and should be post frame (pole barn) constructed.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My concerns are best insulation since this is a metal exterior, attic insulation blown in cellulose, will have drywall in house, attached garage metal flat ceiling, vapor barrier above metal ceiling? Thanks. VICTOR in CHRISMAN

DEAR VICTOR: I think you will find a general consensus as to closed cell spray foam applied directly to steel roofing and siding as being “the best”. In my humble opinion, it is most effective in Climate Zones 3 and under when entire building shell is being encapsulated by it. It also comes with a very pricey initial investment.

With this said, your requirements where you are (Climate Zone 4) are for R-49 in ceilings, R-20 in walls.

If this was my own building, this is what I would do:

Walls (from out-to-in): Steel siding; Omnidirectional Housewrap meeting ASTM E2273 drainage efficiency requirements; Commercial bookshelf girts; R-30 Rockwool Comfort batts; Wel lsealed interior vapor barrier.

Ceiling: Raised heel trusses to allow full depth of insulation from wall-to-wall; Integral Condensation Control factory applied to roof steel; vent eaves and ridge in proper proportion; blow in R-60 fiberglass or granulated Rockwool directly above your ceiling finish. I am not a fan of cellulose over a steel ceiling as chemicals in it (if it gets damp at all) will react with steel to prematurely deteriorate it.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My wife and I are looking at post-frame for our next house and we don’t need a full second story, so we’re considering a loft/one-and-a-half story setup because we also want traditional gabled dormers. We really like the looks of cottage style architecture and want a roof that is somewhere in the ballpark of 9/12 or 10/12, but want to take advantage of the cost savings that post-frame. It’s my understanding from reading other posts that the minimum eave height for two story post-frame houses with 8ft ceilings is ~19ft. What would the minimum eave height for a loft/one-and-a-half story be, and about how much would doing this (for the purposes of adding functional dormers) inflate the cost of a similar size building? NIK in CLEVELAND

DEAR NIK: Post frame construction will prove to be your most economical permanent structure, so you have made an excellent choice. With your preferred roof slope, it is possible you might be able to have an eave height a low as 10 feet, if you want an eight foot high finished ceiling below. One of our Building Designers will be reaching out to you to further discuss your wants and needs and can work with you to create a firm budget.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Heating, Building Department, Post Frame Home, Pole Building How To Guides, Barndominium, Pole Barn Planning, Shouse, floorplans, Building Interior, Budget, Columns and tagged ADU addition, Post Frame Home, insulation, spray foam, rockwool insulation, ADU, engineered post frame home, additional dwelling unit on November 27, 2024 by Rick Ochs.

Tyvek Under Roof Steel?

Tyvek Under Roof Steel?

Reader BRANDON in MIDDLEBOROUGH writes:

“Greetings I’m writing to discuss the best practice for what to place under a metal roof. I am building a post frame, for shop use and will eventually be insulted. I had initially intended to install a WRB, like Tyvek, under the sheet metal roof. My thought was that the inside of the shop will have a vapor barrier and insulation, thus the warm air would not come in contact with the steel and create condensation. Is this thinking flawed?”

WRBs allow moisture to pass through outward and not return inward. Even with a vapor barrier between your ceiling finish and floor of attic insulation, a properly vented attic does allow air to flow in through eave vents and out through ridge.

According to building scientist and founding principal of Building Science Corporation Joe Lstiburek, “Plastic vapor barriers should only be installed in vented attics in climates with more than 8,000 heating degree days.” For extended reading on heating degree days, please see: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2022/11/what-is-degree-day/

You will want to make certain to have intakes and exhaust in proper proportion. Provision of 1 square foot of NFVA for each 300 square feet of attic floor if both following conditions are applicable:

• A Class 1 (≤ 0.1 Perm) or 2 (> 0.1 to ≤ 1.0 Perm) vapor retarder is installed on warm-in-winter side of ceiling when the structure is located in climate zone 6, 7, or 8.
• At least 40%, but not more than 50% of NFVA is provided by vents located not more than 3 feet below roof’s highest point.
• Provision for a minimum 1 inch air space between roof sheathing and insulation in attic at vent location. Air flowing into and out of your attic space may very well contain more moisture than desired, some of which could pass through your WRB and become trapped between WRB and roof steel.

My recommendation would be to order your roof steel with an Integral Condensation Control factory applied (read more here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/).

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Building Interior, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Workshop Buildings, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Planning, Barndominium and tagged vapor barrier, steel roofing, Ventilation, tyvek, moisture barrier, integral condensation control, insulation on October 15, 2024 by Rick Ochs.

Fasteners in ACQ, Vapor Barriers, and Buildings in NC

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about use of which fasteners are best to use in to ACQ treated columns, the need for a vapor barrier in Washington State, and Hansen Buildings in North Carolina.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Potential new customer here. Doing a small job on my own right now.

What should I use for attaching 2x material into uc4b posts? Is stainless steel required? Nails or screws? I was told by Fasten Master that their ACQ approved screws are only approved for uc4a.

Thanks in advance. CHAD

DEAR CHAD: ACQ is highly problematic as, if water is added to the connection, a chemical reaction is created literally “eating” steel. This was found to be a huge issue with deck construction. Code requirement would be for HDG (hot dipped galvanized) fasteners into pressure preservative treated lumber. We would recommend Simpson SDWS screws (it is what we provide for all of our buildings).

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Existing 4 year old pole building on property that we bought (building is heated living space ). Siding is T1-11 by prior owner. Here is the roof detail from top to bottom when we purchased it; metal roofing, MBI blanket, 2×6 purlins, purlin cavity filled with R-19 unfaced batt, 2×12 LVL rafters thru bolted to treated posts, sheetrock secured to bottom of purlins. First problem- not vented properly. Second problem- not enough insulation. We just changed the roof side ( per an engineer calcs ); removed the metal, removed the MBI blanket, added 2×4 sleepers flat 2′ on center running from eave to ridge, added 1/2 CDX, added asphalt shingles roofing, now there is venting over the top of the insulation from eave to ridge vent. Now to the inside space ( the building company said for a heated living space ) add 2×6 between the 2×12 LVL flush to the LVL bottom at 2′ OC then fill that void with a R30 batt, then install a new ceiling.1) Do you agree ?2) Do I need to remove the sheetrock, or can I cut a bunch of holes in it ?3) I plan to use TrussCore for the new ceiling finish, what do you suggest for a vapor barrier behind the TrussCore? I appreciate your thoughts in advance. PS. building is in western WA state. ALAN in STANWOOD

DEAR ALAN: Sounds like you bought into a real mess.

I don’t believe your proposed R-30 batts are going to come anywhere close to meeting Washington state’s energy code requirements: https://sbcc.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-01/2021_WSEC_R_2ndEd_012524.pdf

I would remove sheetrock, it is putting unnecessary weight upon your roof system and could result in deflection issues. If purlins overly deflect, your asphalt shingle roof will have obvious dips between rafters.

You should not need a vapor barrier between ceiling finish and framing.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Why is North Carolina not included in your list of locations to ship a pole barn house? RODNEY in MURPHY

DEAR RODNEY: Hansen Pole Buildings has provided over 100 fully engineered custom designed post frame buildings to our clients in the Carolinas, (as well as every state). To the best of our knowledge, there is no excluded list of any United States location we would not ship a pole barn home to (Hawaii and Alaska barndominiums are shipped to Port of Tacoma for our clients to arrange barge or container transport).

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Constructing a Pole Building, Barndominium, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Building Siding, Ventilation, Lumber, Building Interior, Insulation, Columns, Pole Barn Questions and tagged ACQ treated lumber, Strong-Drive SDWS Timber Screws, North Carolina, insulation, vapor barrier on October 2, 2024 by Rick Ochs.

Twelve Foot Addition, Wall Insulation, and Purlin Settings

This Wednesday The Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about extending an existing 60′ long pole building by twelve feet, the best way to insulate outside walls to prevent sweating, and the reasoning behind setting purlins flush with the top of the truss top chords.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have an existing 40 x 60 pole building, built in the late 80’s. It has double trusses spaced 12 ft apart. I would like to extend it from 60 to 72 ft. We originally were thinking we would extend using stick frame construction but now I am wondering if this will affect the integrity of the existing building. I would like to leave the end of the pole building in place and add a door into the new space at each end. Your advice on the best way to go about this? The extension is planned for a bathroom and laundry space and would have a concrete floor. Thanks for your help. WENDY in VANCOUVER

DEAR WENDY: Adding as a post frame (pole) building will be your most economical and easiest route to go, especially as your Building Department will require engineer sealed drawings and verifying calculations. In order to determine how best to achieve your end goals, we would need detailed photos of inside and outside of your existing building, measurements at eave sides and dead center from bottom of pressure preservative treated splash plank to underside of roof steel, spacing of existing endwall columns, etc. We make deliveries into Western Washington and Northwest Oregon frequently, so freight costs will be quite reasonable. Please forward your information to Caleb@HansenPoleBuildings.com along with site address and best contact phone number.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I built a pole barn last year and am having the floor poured this week. Once completed, I will begin building an apartment inside the barn area. What is the best way to insulate the outside walls for great R value and prevent sweating? DAVID in PORTSMOUTH

DEAR DAVID: If you placed a Weather Resistant Barrier (think Tyvek or similar) between your framing and siding, then fill your insulation cavity with Rockwool and have a well sealed vapor barrier before interior finish. If no WRB, then have two or more inches of closed cell spray foam applied to inside face of your siding, then fill balance of cavity with rockwool and no interior vapor barrier. Depending upon what you do with your under slab and roof for vapor barriers and insulation, you may need to mechanically dehumidify in order to prevent condensation (sweating), as your walls alone are merely a small piece of a big puzzle.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I understand your roof design is with purlins flush with the top of the truss. Why do you use this design? Sorry if this info is on your website, I didn’t see it. Regards, STANLEY in DOSWELL

DEAR STANLEY: Here is an article on this subject: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/02/where-oh-where-should-my-purlins-go/

Having roof purlins flush with top of trusses has many advantages:

It does not take up extra height (purlins over top of trusses either reduces interior clear height or increases eave height).

Purlins are then in perfectly straight lines, allowing for pre-drilling of roof panels (this eliminates misses). Others may try to align purlins over top of trusses using butt end splices. This makes for a very poor connection attempting to get adequate fasteners into 3/4″ (1/2 width) of truss top chords. When purlin joints are lapped, it causes a stagger of the purlins, resulting in inability to pre-drill and a significant chances of screw misses.

Purlins can be connected to trusses using engineered and Code conforming parts (in our case, quick to install Simpson Strongtie PFDB26B). Codes (as well as sound engineering practice) require purlins on edge to be solid blocked or otherwise prevented from rotation at ends. A nailed only connection would not meet this requirement).

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, Columns, Constructing a Pole Building, Sheds, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Barndominium, Footings, Rebuilding Structures, Pole Barn Questions, Budget and tagged addition, post frame addition, insulation, condensation, PFDS26B hangers, Ventilation, extension of building, wall sweating, purlins on September 11, 2024 by Rick Ochs.

Footing Diameter, Non-Ground Contact Columns, and Ceiling Insulation

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about the required footing diameter for a 20’x24′ pole barn garage, use of non-ground contact columns on a concrete stem wall or thickened edge, and Insulating a cathedral ceiling in a barndominium.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am looking to build a 20ft x 24ft pole barn garage. The footings are going to be drilled and filled with concrete now, with the structure being completed at a future date. My city engineer requires 30″ deep footings. He was not able to say for sure what diameter footing I needed to drill. Do you have any insight to what diameter footing I should expect to need for this size structure? JOE in CINCINNATI

DEAR JOE: Ultimately required diameter will depend upon soil bearing capacity and imposed loads. If you are single story, chances are good an engineer would specify 18 inch diameter.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I was fortunate to have acquired enough columns for a building. My question as these are not ground contact columns and I prefer at this time to not pour a concrete floor is it allowable to pour a perimeter of concrete ( 2’x2′,3’x2′?) thickened edge if you will and set the columns to keep them off the ground? I was thinking partially setting rebar perpendicular in the concrete leaving 1-2′ protruding towards the buildings center to tie a future slab possibility into what would be the existing edge ( foundation). This is a cost driven situation as you may have already surmised. Really appreciate your knowledge and time. RICK in TWO RIVERS

DEAR RICK: To save further on costs, you can pour concrete piers to support engineered wet-set brackets. This would be much simpler than pouring a concrete perimeter. Bottom of piers should be at or below frost line. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/05/sturdi-wall-plus-concrete-brackets/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Insulating a cathedral ceiling in a barndominium. It is house wrapped and single bubble beneath the metal roof panels. Girts and purlins are on 2 ft centers. Was planning on using Rockwool and Siga Majrex with the appropriate air gap. Building is vented through soffit on all sides. Also planning on using soffit baffles( and should I take them to the peak) , along with plastic vapor barrier above stone before concrete. Is there a better way, other than spray foam, and would that be in the ceiling over top of the single bubble also? Thanks. CHAD in DILLINER

DEAR CHAD: Thank you for the photos. You need to seal any venting coming in from endwalls. This can be done by placing 2×4 blocking flat between purlins on top of end truss. Install baffles between trusses and run them “uphill” to beyond depth of your insulation to be blown in. Do not use a vapor barrier between ceiling finish and truss bottom chords. Ideally blow in granulated Rockwool above ceiling (second choice would be fiberglass).

This entry was posted in Constructing a Pole Building, Columns, Pole Barn Homes, Trusses, Barndominium, Ventilation, Concrete, Lumber, Building Interior, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Budget, Pole Barn Design, Professional Engineer and tagged footings, insulation, vapor barrier, soil bearing capacity, wet set brackets, thickened slab, footing diameter, ground contact, ceiling insulation, dry columns on August 21, 2024 by Rick Ochs.

Insulate a Post Frame Building, Ventilation, and Column Sizes

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about the most economical way to insulate a pole barn style building, advice on ventilation, and the best column size for a building in Michigan.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, I am looking at either building a pole barn style or hybrid Steel column, post and joist with 2×6 purlins and girts. If I were to place 1/2″ sheathing on the walls and roof, install 30 felt paper then my metal on the walls and roof, what would be the most economical way to insulate it. It will be my hobby shop not a living space. ROBERT in OCEAN PARK

DEAR ROBERT: All of these recommendations are based upon meeting energy code requirements for conditioned buildings. Washington State will be a stickler for these.

1/2″ sheathing and felt is probably not your best design solution (besides being expensive).

Roof – order roof steel with a factory applied Integral Condensation Control https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/

Order trusses with raised heels (deep enough to not compress blown in attic fiberglass insulation) https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/raised-heel-trusses/

Order trusses designed to support weight of a ceiling and install one. Blow in R-60 fiberglass above ceiling. Vent eave and ridge in correct proportions https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2023/06/274512/

Walls: From out-to-in:

Steel siding; Weather Resistant Barrier (Housewrap); 2×8 bookshelf wall girts; R-30 unfaced Rockwool batts; 6mil clear plastic vapor barrier; Interior finish

Slab: If using radiant floor heat, R-10 under slab and at slab edge. Otherwise R-10 rigid boards down two feet, then out two feet.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have an 18×20 metal building (my house) that’s covered with spray foam insulation at 1.5″ on the walls and 2″ on the inside roof. The entire space will be conditioned. I am now reading that I may need to ventilate the space. I thought the purpose of the spray foam was to make it air-tight as a closed envelope system. So, can you explain what I need to know about venting? Also I have a large attic fan I am wanting to install in the wall. It has louvers on it to hopefully seal the air and water out. I plan to use it to blow hot air out when I come home instead of cooling while at work. Then turn on the AC. Also plan to use on days that’s it’s not terribly hot as a method of cooling the whole house like my grandparents did. I live in East Texas so I won’t be able to do this too often. Is this ok or should I scrap this idea? Can I expect the louvers to seal good enough? With this would I need a mechanical ventilation system? Thank you for your awesome help. I’ve been reading your advice for years. CINDY in TYLER

DEAR CINDY: Thank you for your kind words and for being a loyal reader. Your solve is for your HVAC vendor to design and install a system to remove excess humidity from your interior air, otherwise you can expect to have some nasty condensation issues in your home.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What size posts should be used for 30′ x 40′ x 10 with 6/12 pitch in southern lower Michigan??? Storage/ garage / shop. STEVE in MARSHALL

DEAR STEVE: Looking at your most recent quote for a 30′ x 48′ truss bearing columns would be 6×6 solid sawn. We will be converting all of our roof supporting columns to glulams in a few months, then it would become 3ply 2×6 glulams.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Heating, Trusses, Barndominium, Ventilation, Footings, Insulation, Building Interior, Pole Barn Questions and tagged pressure preservative treated columns, moisture barrier, insulation, vapor barrier, HVAC, spray foam, attic fan, post frame insulation, columns on July 3, 2024 by admin.

High Humidity in a Pole Barn Home

High Humidity in a Pole Barn Home

Reader SAM writes: “I had a pole barn home built before pole barn homes became so popular. A concrete floor was poured around the 6×6 posts, and wooden trusses make up the roof. The pole barn walls have 2×6 purlins, and the roof has 2×4 purlins. Fiberglass insulation with a plastic vapor barrier sandwiched between the metal and the purlins. The vapor barrier is facing inside the structure, and the fiberglass is against the metal. I had living quarters framed inside the pole barn. The living structure is typical house construction with 2×4 walls, bat insulation in the walls, drywall, and cellulose blown over the ceiling joist of the living space. The living space has an HVAC with the air handler installed above the living space mounted between the trusses. When the structure was first built, the builder did not allow for any roof ventilation and no overhang or soffit vents to bring in fresh air. We started having high humidity inside the living space, even with the HVAC. Over the years, I had several HVAC companies evaluate the problem, and no one could give me an answer or solution to the problem. I removed a strip of the insulation and vapor barrier along the ridge cap and at the gable ends of the barn. I installed a vented ridge cap and used a cor-a-vent type vent installed under the gable rakes to provide ventilation up the gable walls and into the barn. I am considering installing another cor-a-vent product under the fascia along the walls to allow more airflow into the pole barn and attic space along the barn’s length. The concrete slab never appears wet on the garage side of the barn. Also, I have never noticed the flooring inside the living space being wet or damp. Do you have any ideas on why I am having the high humidity in the living space and what I can do to correct the problem?”

First why….

Everyday activities like cooking, washing, and showering can contribute to humidity levels.
Humidity levels can be affected by simple activities taking place in a household every day. These tasks can naturally add more moisture to air. Cooking and running a dishwasher can add more water vapor to kitchen air. Long, hot showers add a lot of moisture to bathrooms. Keeping areas ventilated by opening a window or installing an exhaust fan can lower humidity inside. Certain appliances, such as clothes dryers and stoves, need to vent to outside. A whole-house dehumidifier can also help eliminate some moisture created by these activities.

Leaks coming through cracks in plumbing system.
An interior plumbing leak from a bathroom or kitchen sink can cause increased moisture. Check pipes for cracks and corrosion.

Moisture from soil under your concrete slab.
If there is not a vapor barrier under your concrete slab, this can be a major source of moisture. This is called rising damp. Ineffective grading can be a significant factor since groundwater and rain can accumulate under your home. Gutters and downspouts should direct outflow at least 10 feet away from exterior walls. Ground outside your building should slope away at least six inches in 10 feet.

Your AC unit may be too big for your home.
Bigger isn’t always better: An oversize central AC unit may be reason for excessive moisture in a home. Evaporator coils found inside AC units act as a dehumidifier and pulls humidity from the as it runs. However, if a unit is too large, it may cool a room or home too quickly, running for only 10 to 15 minutes on a hot day before it abruptly shuts down. This is commonly referred to as short cycling. A longer runtime is needed to dehumidify a home correctly.

And then your likely solution:
I am surprised none of your HVAC professionals have recommended an ERV (Energy Recovery Ventilator). An ERV system will keep your indoor relative humidity at a desirable level.

This entry was posted in Concrete, Building Interior, Insulation, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Questions, Barndominium, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Planning, Ventilation and tagged Ventilation, high humidity, Energy Recovery Ventilator, insulation, vapor barrier on June 20, 2024 by Rick Ochs.

Insulation, Lean-To’s and a DIY

A Bonus Ask the Guru for this Thursday’s blog for Insulation, Lean-To’s and a DIY

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a 30×40 pole barn with 6″ purloins mounted between the posts. I’m planning to add minimal insulation using closed cell panels. I’ve seen recommendations to cut the panels to fit between the purloins (would be up against metal) ang using great stuff to seal gaps/seams. I’ve also seen recommendations to attach panels to inside of purloins and seal with tape, which would leave roughly 5.5 inch air gap. However, the air gap would have little real ventilation due to the purloins. It would just be lots of “pockets”. I plan on putting 1/2 inch plywood over the insulation. Note…this is a coastal area with direct sea breeze and I’m only insulating about half of the barn, if that matters. Interior walls with fiberglass batting will separate the heated/unheated areas. RAY in SOUTH BEACH

DEAR RAY: Other than if you intend to use closed cell spray foam insulation applied directly to underside of your roof steel, there is no other ‘right’ way to insulate between your roof purlins. Here is a story from another person, in a similar situation: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2023/10/properly-insulating-between-roof-purlins/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m wanting to add a 20′ lean to my 40x60x14 barn. Lean I would like is 20x60x12 but not sure if this work? What size do lumber for rafters for that span and how close together? Put 29ga metal on roof enclosure of 2 ends

Thank you. ALAN in MERIDEN

DEAR ALAN: Adding a lean to may look quite simple, but can be fraught with unknown challenges.

Your existing building should be checked by an engineer to insure columns on side you are attaching to are adequate for newly imparted loads. Rarely will footings along this side of your existing building be adequate in diameter to now have to support twice as much load as originally intended. Snow drift zone (along each side of ridge of existing building), will become significantly wider on side of ridge opposite your lean to addition.

It may prove most prudent, to place another set of columns every 12 feet along your existing building sidewall to support your lean to. This would also eliminate having to cut into your existing wall for attachment.

If your intention is to clearspan 20 feet rafters will probably have to be either LVLs (Laminated Veneer Lumber – read more here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/02/lvls/ ) or we have ultra high strength lumber available to fabricate wood roof trusses with your very low slope and not take up any more headroom than absolutely needed.

Another consideration is your proposed 1.2/12 roof slope will void paint warranties on your new addition roof steel.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi, I’m very interested in getting one of these, but do you install them? Or do I need to find someone who knows how to? The answer will determine whether or not I buy. ROBEY in CERRILLOS

DEAR ROBEY: Hansen Pole Buildings are designed to be erected by any average physically capable person who can and will read directions. We have had clients from septuagenarians to father’s bonding with their teenage daughters successfully erect their own beautiful buildings, often saving tens of thousands of dollars while doing so.

Thousands of DIYers, in all 50 states, have built their own Hansen Pole Buildings. You can see photos of their work on our website.

Your engineer sealed building plans are specific to your building, on your site and include location and connections for every member. Details on plans are keyed to specific sections of our step-by-step Construction Manual guiding you through every phase of assembly. Even your lumber package comes with board ends of specific members color coded to match their location on your building. You don’t even have to drive nails, as we provide structural screws for assembly!

Get stuck, can’t find an answer or just want to confirm something? Our Technical Support team (who have actually built buildings) provides unlimited free assistance.

While some of our clients do hire building erectors, it is certainly not a necessity to do so (and no, we are not building contractors in any state).

This entry was posted in Ventilation, floorplans, Building Interior, Budget, Insulation, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Questions, Columns, Pole Barn Design, Sheds, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Planning, Barndominium, Trusses and tagged purlins, lean-to addition, lean-to, DIY, insulation, building erector on May 30, 2024 by Rick Ochs.

A BONUS PBG for Friday May, 17th– Roof Insulation, Column Sizing, and a Moisture Issue.

A BONUS PBG for Friday May, 17th– Roof Insulation, Column Sizing, and a Moisture Issue.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi Mike. I built a post and beam shop and am trying to figure out how to insulate the roof on the second floor. The bents are true sawn 6×6 on ten foot centers (building is 40 feet long and loft is 16 feet wide). I used true 4×4 purlins on top of the 6×6 bents. I put 5/8 OSB over that, underlayment, then metal on top. I put a ridge vent system in. Now I’m looking at insulating the roof from the inside. I really have no air passage ways as the purlins run horizontally. My thought was to use 3 inch owens corning foam leaving a one inch gap to the OSB. I read your piece on closed cell spray foam for unvented roofs but mine is already vented. Can you give me any advice please? Thank you. MATT in ATHOL

DEAR MATT: While your idea is noble, it is impossible to place foam boards to completely eliminate warm, moist air from getting through cracks and seams. Eventually moisture will be trapped against underside of your OSB and there the fun (not really) begins. You really need to block your ridge vent and use closed cell spray foam. This article is in regards to another person in a similar circumstance: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2023/10/properly-insulating-between-roof-purlins/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am planning to build a 48 x 48 Monitor style pole barn that I intend to use for RV storage in the middle and living space above the center section. Will 6″ x 6″ posts be adequate spaced 12 ft apart or should I use 8″ x 8″? TIMOTHY in MARION

DEAR TIMOTHY: Your building columns will be sized by our engineers based upon building heights and loads carried. I would suspect our 3 ply 2×6 glulaminated columns produced from 2400msr lumber (roughly 50% stronger in bending than any other readily available columns) will be likely to adequately carry imposed loads.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: When vinyl backed fiberglass insulation is installed on a metal roof, and is enclosed with rib closures and the roof extends 2″ over the purlin, should water still be able to reach the fiberglass? If so, should the fiberglass be replaced? Would this be something the contractor would be responsible for? Thank you. MARY in GREENEVILLE

DEAR MARY: Properly installed water should not reach fiberglass. If you see any fiberglass at juncture of wall and roof steel, then it was not properly installed. During installation, last roughly four inches of fiberglass should be removed from vinyl, then vinyl folded back over fiberglass. Folded edge should be even with outside of beveled eave strut (eave girt/purlin). If improperly installed contractor should at the least remove roofing to allow fiberglass to dry, then reinstall correctly.

This entry was posted in Roofing Materials, Barndominium, Pole Barn Planning, Ventilation, Building Drainage, Building Interior, Columns, Insulation, Lofts, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design and tagged moisture barrier, glulaminated column, insulation, treated column, spray foam, columns on May 17, 2024 by Rick Ochs.

An I-Beam Size, Plans for Permit, and Moisture Control

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about an I-Beam size for a lean too, plans for a county permit- included with purchase of a Hansen Building, and advice for use of insulation and barriers for new build.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hey Mike I’ve got a question for you, I recently just bought new double wide in Alabama my wife wanted a lean too off the back and sent me a photo, we just got the slab completed it’s 28foot by 76 foot I want to add a top but puzzled will a 28foot I beam support a metal roof without sagging? Or will I have to have a support middle ways through? Being we are going to drive in on one side I really didn’t want a post in the middle, also if a 28 or 30 ft I beam will support it how far apart should I place them to hold metal roof. Attaching pictures for what she wants/ what we have now. Thank you. DAVID in ALABAMA

DEAR DAVID: You will need an engineer to actually size an I beam for you, however you can clearspan the 28 feet. As for spacing of beams, it (and beam size) will depend upon what you intend to place between I beams to attach steel roofing. Again, same engineer can make this determination. One thing you do not want to do is to plan upon your double wide to support high end of your beams – over time this will result in all sorts of problems (such as cracks in interior finishes and windows not wanting to open). Instead, support beams with columns.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: 28W x 30L pole barn, single 10’w x 9’t garage door, single entry door…need plans for county permit. Where can I get? DOUG in HAVRE DE GRACE

DEAR DOUG: Your new Hansen Pole Building investment includes site-specific full multi-page 24″ x 36″ engineer sealed structural blueprints detailing location and attachment of every piece (as well as suitable for obtaining Building Permits), our industry’s best, fully illustrated step-by-step installation manual, and unlimited technical support from people who have actually built post frame buildings. Please call 1.866.200.9657 tomorrow for details.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Building a new pole barn in a Texas barn style framing. I want to insulate the roof and walls. I plan to use 1-1/2″ EPS foil faced foam but am not completely positive where to put the vapor barrier to prevent condensation as if I do spray foam between the EPS and girths I’m concerned the spray foam will migrate into the rib blocking some airflow. Building will be 2×4 trusses 3:12 pitch 28′ wide on 2′ centers allowing the possibility to put a ceiling in at a much later date. Enclosed side lean to’s will be 2×6 rafters on the same spacing. I’ve gone down a rabbit hole researching a lot of forums and website data and believe the best way would be to install the EPS between the 2×4 girths and then a reflective radiant barrier. To clarify the girths will be 2×4’s laid flat and with the 1-1/2″ EPS there would be no air gap as bubble style wraps need to work properly. JOE in AUSTIN

DEAR JOE: If you want to do it right, spray two inches of closed cell directly to wall and roof steel and be done with it. If you are absolutely not going to use closed cell spray foam, then reflective radiant barrier should only be used between roof purlins and steel roofing, with well-sealed seams, as a condensation control. For walls – from outside to inside….steel siding, housewrap over bookshelf girts, Rockwool batts, interior vapor barrier, interior finish. For your ceiling, vents eaves and ridge, blow in insulation above ceiling.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Planning, Barndominium, Shouse, Ventilation, floorplans, Building Interior, Budget, Insulation, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Questions, Sheds, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Homes, Building Department and tagged Plans, insulation, Building permit, I-beam, condensation control, permit, lean-too, support beams, moisture barrier on May 15, 2024 by admin.

Challenges to Insulating an Existing Pole Building

Challenges to Insulating an Existing Pole Building

Reader TODD in STACY writes:

“Hello, I am looking to insulate and heat an existing 30x40x12 pole building that was built in the mid 2000’s. It does not have soffits or ridge vents. The way it is now it gets condensation on the inside quite often just with daily weather, I assume because of the lack of ventilation. I am planning on steel liner panel ceiling, poly vaper barrier and blown in fiberglass. But the problem is how do I achieve adequate ventilation without soffits? I am worried that once i get all the insulation in and still have condensation problems and end up with wet insulation. Also, last spring, as ALL the snow from last winter was melting the water was making it up and under the roof overlaps and was freezing and spreading them open and dripping inside! Would having it insulated have kept this from happening? I couldn’t help but think it was a good thing I didn’t have it insulated then or my insulation would of been soaked! But I thought maybe it wouldn’t of happened if it had been insulated, what are your thoughts on that? When it comes the wall insulation some say to wrap everything with a house wrap from the inside, insulate with fiberglass and then poly vaper barrier and then the steel liner panel. Others say the house wrap isn’t necessary just the inside poly. What do you recommend? Thank you for your help!”

It sounds like your building has several things going on, some of them easily fixable.

If your building does not have an under-slab vapor barrier – seal it. This is your top source of moisture inside of buildings. Think of concrete as a sponge rather than a solid (concrete being actually relatively porous). Pores in concrete (smaller than human hairs. so invisible to a naked eye) constitute 12 to 18% or more of a concrete slab!

Water coming through roof steel laps…this will normally only occur if steel has been overlapped incorrectly. Smaller, or partial, rib should go over top of larger full rib. This occurs all too often, even when supposedly professional builders are hired. If this is your case, it can be remedied – remove ridge caps (number them, so they get put back in same order they came off), then remove screws closest to laps. Pull up on edge of panel currently on top. While it is being held up, pull up on other panel edge, then put full lap edge down, overlapping it with partial lap. Use screws one size large diameter and 1/2″ greater in length to refasten steel panels.

vented-closure-strip While ridge cap is off, replace solid foam closure strips with vented ones. Use 1-1/4″ long #12 stitch (metal-to-metal) screws to reattach ridge caps.

Add gable vents for air intake, bottom edge of vents should be just above thickness of ceiling insulation you will be adding. You will need to add 144 square inches of NFVA (Net Free Ventilating Area) at each end.

I am guessing your roof steel has no means of controlling condensation currently. Your easiest solve, at this point, is to have two inches of closed cell spray foam applied directly to underside of roof steel. Otherwise, you could remove entire roof and install a thermal break. Some possibilities would be reflective radiant barrier (with seams taped), metal building insulation (with seams overlapped and stapled together), or solid sheathing (such as plywood or OSB) with 30# felt applied over top.

If you can obtain it, consider blowing in granulated rockwool, rather than fiberglass, as it is not affected by moisture.

Walls – while housewrap would have been nice, rather than pulling off all wall steel, I would use rockwool batts to entirely fill cavity, well-sealed interior vapor barrier, then your steel liner panels.

This entry was posted in Barndominium, Roofing Materials, Pole Building How To Guides, Ventilation, Building Interior, Insulation, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Questions and tagged insulating pole building, insulating existing pole building, insulation, closures, condensation, spray foam, Ventilation, gable vents on May 7, 2024 by admin.

Sourcing Treated Columns, Truss Bracing, and Insulating a Roof

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about sourcing 4pc of 4x6x18′ treated columns, truss bracing in a custom cabin, and insulating a roof on a metal pole barn.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Looking for 4pcs 4x6x18 treated ground contact. JERRY in COATESVILLE

DEAR JERRY: This one is going to be tough. Very few lumber dealers inventory pressure preservative treated 4×6 in lengths over 16′. other than in Pacific Northwest states. For a lumberyard to bring them in, they will usually be forced to have to purchase an entire unit – not very practical for them or for you. Your solution is most likely to source 6x6x18′ as they should be in stock.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Trying to figure if I need more braces or not. 18 ft cathedral with king post truss. No supporting interior walls both garage below and great room are open floor plan. So I used 5/8 plywood both sides of garage walls to help with sheer wall and racking bolted everything down and now got tongue and groove on interior upstairs so should be ok . Just would like something more but maybe this enough just as it is. I got horizontal Xs up in rafter ties. I also have collar ties in peak. But other than that everything seems good I used double 2×10 for each truss from sill to peak then double 2×6 as rafter ties. BUCK in DERBY LINE

DEAR BUCK: Every bottom chord should probably be braced at centerline, not just some of them. Short of this, I couldn’t venture a guess without reviewing an entire set of structural plans.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: After reading some opinions on some forums I am getting ready to insulate the roof of my metal pole barn. Paper backed fiberglass insulation will not stop condensation without putting plastic sheeting over top of it. How do you feel about this method? Insulation against the underside of the metal roof with plastic over the insulation. DAVE DEAR

DAVE: This should answer some of your questions https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2023/10/properly-insulating-between-roof-purlins/

This entry was posted in Building Interior, Lumber, Budget, Insulation, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Questions, Columns, Roofing Materials, Constructing a Pole Building, Barndominium, Pole Barn Planning and tagged treated columns, sourcing columns, insulation, king post truss, condensation, paper backed insulation, truss bracing, spray foam on March 27, 2024 by admin.

Under Slab Insulation XPS or EPS?

Under Slab Insulation XPS or EPS?

Way back (okay, 2021 it just seems like it was long ago), I had extolled virtues of expanded polystyrene (EPS) for barndominium concrete slab insulation boards/

Full article can be read here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2021/11/barndominium-concrete-slab-insulation-boards/.

If there is one thing I have learned in my construction industry career, it is insulation manufacturers, suppliers, installers, etc., will seemingly come up with or say anything in order to promote their product over those of others.

As an example – consider ridiculous claims made by Reflective Radiant Barrier providers. Martin Holladay of Green Building Advisor ripped them apart here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/04/reflective-insulation-wars/

Or what about those insulated overhead doors? https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/07/barndominium-high-r-value-overhead-doors-part-i/ and https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/07/barndominium-high-r-value-overhead-doors-part-ii/.

When I penned my article on EPS for concrete slab insulation, and published it, one of my social media friends had done some of his own research and found this article: https://www.constructionspecifier.com/xps-delivers-high-r-values-in-below-grade-applications/3/.

Now this referenced study by Connor, seemingly refutes data I was able to glean from my previous searches. Connor’s work would lead one to favor XPS over EPS.

Of course EPS Industry Alliance has published their own Technical Bulletin, “Use Fully Aged R-values for Insulation & Building Envelope Design”: https://www.airfoam.com/EPS-vs-XPS-Aged-R-Values.pdf. In this article a claim is made XPS loses R-value as blowing agent retained in cells dissipates over time by as much as 20%, while EPS has a stable R-value, not decreasing with time.

As I was not personally involved in any of these studies, I am unable to draw any personal conclusions or make recommendations past do your own homework, and pick a product you believe will be affordable and do what you need it to do.

This entry was posted in Concrete, Pole Barn Heating, Barndominium, Insulation, Pole Barn Design, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning and tagged insulation, slab, foam insulation board, XPS, EPS, under slab insulation on March 26, 2024 by admin.

A Basketball Court, A “Dog Trot” and Proper Insulation

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about building a basketball court within town height restrictions, building a “dog trot” and some advice on the proper way to insulate a red iron building.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have been on the pole barn Facebook group for over a year and was strongly considering that for a long time however one of the main uses I want the building for besides a workshop and storage is I’m going to build a basketball court for my son and I need the ceiling height to be at least 20 ft in the center probably closer to 25 and I know that will be challenging with a pole barn even with a scissor truss. One of the issues is the town won’t allow residential buildings over a certain height, I think 30′ and we want at least a 12/3 roof pitch so with a 50′ width we would still struggle to get the interior ceiling height we are looking for. Appreciate the info though. NICHOLAS in WESTCHESTER

DEAR NICHOLAS: We have a half-court in our post frame shouse, wish we would have gone 20′ ceilings rather than 16′. As far as heights, we can engineer and provide up to 40′ sidewalls and three stories (or 50′ and four with fire suppression sprinklers), so your heights are not a problem at all. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/04/indoor-basketball-courts/?fbclid=IwAR3E-ZfmI-ICt-QwTZxetHfhk5GYl4bWGfPxTo1HTck-XCS4D6FCgrqFI5M

See what you can find out on your overall height issue for certain. Often they can make small exceptions without having to go through any lengthy or expensive processes. With 50′ span at 3/12 and 30′ overall height you should be able to get close to a 23′ ceiling height. An option might also be parallel chord scissor trusses. Would gain some interior height at center – lose some at sidewalls.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Have you ever built a dog trot style like this using metal buildings? Do you have pictures you can share? My husband and I really want to do this dog trot and hope to see pictures. Can you tell me what size the two structures were the you provided? Also can you provide roof pitch? Our plan is to place at least the first structure or both and build the porch in between. REEDE in STAFFORD

DEAR REEDE: Yes, we have provided dog trot home post frame buildings. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/08/a-dog-trot-post-frame-home/

Because we provide only DIY buildings, we have only a very small percentage of our clients providing us with finished photos. We have done a broad variety of footprints, due to each building we provide being custom designed for each client’s individual wants and needs. Most often roof slopes are 4/12 as it is usually most economical and easiest for an average DIYer to work on.

Our team will gladly provide sketchups for you, for free, so you can get an idea of what your chosen plans will look like in real life. 1.866.200.9657

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello! I keep reading on how to properly insulate on these Facebook groups and have no idea what is accurate. I’m building a red iron building and want to insulate. Metal roof and metal liner on the inside. I’m building a K building from Elgin service center in Ohio. What do you recommend?

Building is in Northwest Ohio. A gym and shop with offices. Space will be heated and cooled.

I’ve gotten a couple quotes and full foam is pretty pricy. Would you recommend house wrap and fiberglass? Or is that a really bad idea? SETH in OHIO

DEAR SETH: You are in Climate Zone 5A for commercial metal buildings requirement for ceiling is R-49 Walls R13 + R14 continuous. You could meet this with all closed cell 7″ in roof, 4″ in walls, or do a combination of 2″ of closed cell plus 10″ open cell in roof. 2″ closed/4″ open in walls. Spray foam should be applied directly to inside of steel.

For walls you could probably Tyvek and use batts (I would recommend Rockwool) with an interior vapor barrier, although Code wants 2″ of closed cell, then you could add R-13 unfaced batts with no vapor barrier on interior. For roof, if you have no other source of condensation control, you need at least 2″ of closed cell spray foam directly to roof steel.

This entry was posted in Budget, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Design, Barndominium, Pole Barn Planning, Trusses, Ventilation, Building Interior and tagged scissor trusses, dogtrot barndominium, insulation, rock wool insulation, post frame basketball court, height restrictions, dogtrot on March 20, 2024 by admin.

How to Best Insulate an All-Steel Building

How to Best Insulate an All-Steel Building

I know lots and lots about post frame buildings, however when it comes to all steel buildings (PEMBs – Pre-Engineered Metal Buildings aka Red Iron) I go to an expert.

Today’s expert is John Lyle McInroe aka Mr Bee Happy, he has been in the building industry since 1988. From 1988 to 1996 he built pole Barn structures. In 1996 he built his first steel building and for eight years built both pole Barn and red iron structures. In 2004 he went into red iron full time and has been building red iron structures of all shapes and sizes ever since. If I was looking for a red iron building in John’s service area, with out question he would be my man.

The most effective way to seal your steel building would be to use spray foam. Since the steel sheeting is already screwed down, I would start with getting closure strips for your panels. You take the closure strips and cut the high rib part off the strips and stuff it in all the high ribs of your panels. This would need to be done at the bottom and top of your sidewall panels and on the bottom and top of your roof panels as well. You want to make sure that anywhere you see daylight is sealed up. I would also use silicone to seal these closure strips into place. Also, just for a little extra, I would also use a flashing tape on any spots that you see daylight that isn’t necessarily where high ribs are. Places like gable end walls where roof and wall come together and corners. Simply, just want to make sure its sealed as well as possible. Once everything is sealed, I would have a reputable spray foam company spray two inches of closed cell foam on all walls and roof and make sure all steel is covered with the closed cell foam. This would include all purlins girt and beams. At this point you have sealed the envelope of the building but have a low R value, roughly 14. So what we do is use an open cell foam on top of the closed cell. We do 5.5” in the roof with 3.5” in the walls. At this point you have an R value of over 33 in the roof and 26 in walls and you have sealed the envelope. Now when we use this method on our projects, we make sure our HVAC company knows how to put in proper HVAC system. Main thing is making sure the system has a fresh air intake system. These are the processes and procedures that we use on all of our projects.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Design, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Ventilation, Pole Barn Heating, Barndominium, Uncategorized and tagged guest blogger, insulation, post frame insulation, steel building, insulating steel building on February 22, 2024 by admin.

Greyed Lumber, Insulation, and Flat Purlins over Trusses

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about cleaning up rough cut lumber that has greyed from exposure to the elements, advice on house wrap and insulation, and the ability of flat purlins over trusses to carry a load in Kentucky.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My barn project has been a long drawn out process. The project stalled for 6 months but has picked back up again. I’m using rough cut lumber. Unfortunately, the wood has a grey color to it (probably from dirt, mold or algae on the surface).

What’s the best way to clean it to make it look fresh/revived again? Any products that you recommend?

Thank you again for all your help and advice. JAMES in MILTON

DEAR JAMES: Clean with sodium percarbonate or hydrogen peroxide, then apply oxalic or citralic adid (second step restores wood to its natural pH and neutralizes sodium percarbonate cleaner).

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I added a lean-to to my 60×90 pole barn. The builder put house wrap around exterior walls. When the tin guys put up the metal they put bubble wrap over the house wrap then the metal. I spray foamed with closed cell inside 2 inches. The interior will be knotty pine so do I need to put another barrier before the wood? Also on the roof they put the bubble wrap under the steel I will have blow in on top of the knotty pine. I plan on putting plastic sheathing before the knotty pine. Is this the correct way of doing or should we change something? SCOTT in KOUTS

DEAR SCOTT: It was bad enough when your tin guys put bubble wrap over your housewrap. Compounding your having spent your hard earned money on both, is closed cell spray foam should have been applied directly to inside of steel siding. Water under a bridge at this point. You should fill balance of wall cavity with unfaced rock wool and no interior vapor barrier. Wall will now dry to inside (meaning you may have to mechanically dehumidify). You did not say if your added lean to has an attic space or not. If your intent is to insulate with plane of roof (purlins) here is some guidance: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2023/10/properly-insulating-between-roof-purlins/

If you are insulating above a lower ceiling height (as you say blow in – I will guess this is your case), in your Climate Zone 5A a vapor retarder should be on warm in winter side of insulation (not a vapor barrier, like plastic sheeting). A vapor retarder could be as simple as kraft facing from batt insulation, or latex ceiling paint. Make sure to adequately vent any non-conditioned attic space.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I love reading your posts. I’ve learned much about your ideas and it’s changing the way I think. Thank you. Iowa and SD have different wind and snow loads than central KY. I routinely see farmers building barns with 2×4 purlins laid flat on trusses spaced every 8 feet. Your designs call for 12 spacing, which I love, and 2×6 purlins on edge in joist hangers. Would 2×4 purlins in joist hangers work in central KY?

CHRISTOPHER in RICHMOND

DEAR CHRISTOPHER: Thank you for your kind words.

We have provided fully engineered post frame buildings in places with no snow, to places where snow load is over 400 pounds per square foot – so we have pretty much seen it all!

Those farmers laying 2×4 purlins flat (wide face to sky) spanning eight feet are risking not only their buildings, but their lives. I am amazed they can even apply roof steel to them without failures.

For 12′ spans, without snow, purlins on edge, 2×4 2400 msr roof purlins 24 inches on center would carry loads, however would overly deflect. You could probably use 2×4 #2 Southern Pine at 12 inches on center, however 2×6 #2 at twice spacing would be more economical both in materials and labor.

Read more about msr lumber here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/12/machine-graded-lumber/

This entry was posted in purlins, Pole Barn Planning, Ventilation, Uncategorized, Building Interior, Lumber, Insulation, Columns, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Barndominium, Constructing a Pole Building and tagged grey lumber, insulation, gray lumber, spray foam, rough cut lumber, moldy lumber, purlins, Kentucky building, flat purlins, house wrap on February 21, 2024 by admin.

Help – My Hobby Shop Has Wall Condensation

Help – My Hobby Shop Has Wall Condensation

Reader EVAN in PHILADELPHIA writes:

“Hi there, I recently constructed a small 20x20x10 pole barn for use as a hobby shop (woodworking, etc.). The eaves have vented soffit and the roof has a ridge vent. On the interior I did a metal ceiling with blown in R-C38 Cellulose. The attic space seems to be ventilating very well and I have no concerns. However, for the walls, I am having some moisture issues and am curious what the best plan of attack might be. The building is wrapped in Tyvek, I then constructed horizontal studs that line up with the exterior purlins and filled the gap with R19 faced Batts. I taped all the seams and tried to seal it the best I could. I then covered the walls with wood panels. However, after some activity that created some moisture in the air of the shop, I decided to check the walls and found the back of the Tyvek and fiberglass insulation soaking wet in a couple spots. Now, granted, the spots I had access to were less than ceiled (Around a pipe) that would be a likely spot for the warm moist air in the shop to get to the cold Tyvek, But I am afraid it’s likely an all-over problem. I know this is probably one of the most common questions you receive but I’m curious what you would recommend? Should I pull the wood panels off and add a vinyl vapor barrier. Would it be okay to put a vinyl vapor barrier over top of the faced fiberglass? Is there any negative to adding a vapor barrier? For example, would the reverse happen in the summertime if the shop is air conditioned? Any thoughts would be appreciated, I wish the company that sold me the barn would’ve discussed all this beforehand! But, we will move ahead. Attached are pictures showing the wall construction.”

This one really is not your provider’s fault.

Your faced insulation is already a vapor retarder. Adding another vinyl vapor barrier over interior of it is unlikely to change your outcome (although it shouldn’t negatively impact anything – other than being a lot of work).

If you do not have a vapor barrier under your slab, seal top of slab.

You have a very small area, so it takes only a very small amount of excess moisture to create challenges. Invest in a good portable dehumidifier (we bought one for our house at Walmart) and run it any time relative humidity inside your shop is over 40%.

This should take care of your challenge.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Ventilation, Building Interior, Pole Barn Heating, Uncategorized, Insulation and tagged insulation, vapor barrier, housewrap, condensation, tyvek, hobby shop on February 15, 2024 by admin.

Plastic Vapor Barrier, PermaColumn, and a Fire Resistant Barrier

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about use of 6 mil plastic vapor barrier in Michigan, if Hansen provides the option of a precast concrete pier to keep columns out of the ground, build heights, and “if anything needed between interior PVC panels, closed cell spray foam and the exterior metal siding.”

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a pole barn that I am planning on insulating. The trusses are 2 foot on center and it has a shingled roof, the outside of the pole barn is steel. I live in Michigan and I was wondering if it is a good idea to put 6 mil plastic on the bottom of trusses before I hang steel on the ceiling. I will be blowing in insulation up there later. KAL in HUDSONVILLE

DEAR KAL: You are in Climate Zone 5A, so a ceiling vapor barrier is not required by Code. Building scientist and founding principal of Building Science Corporation Joe Lstiburek states, “Plastic vapor barriers should only be installed in vented attics in climates with more than 8,000 heating degree days.” (More on degree days here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2022/11/what-is-degree-day/).

I would only recommend you installing a vapor barrier above your steel ceiling if you were to be considering blowing in cellulose insulation. Why cellulose? https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2022/10/cellulose-post-frame-attic-insulation/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Do you deal with post frame designs that: 1) use the precast column to keep wood out of the ground? 2) Deal with designs that are 20′ eave height to accommodate 2 story interiors. JONATHAN in ZANESVILLE

DEAR JONATHAN: We have had several clients provide their own pre-cast Permacolumns and they can be incorporated into our engineered designs. There is, however, a less costly option to explore: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/04/perma-column-price-advantage/

We can engineer and provide up to 40 foot tall walls and three stories without needing fire suppression sprinklers, so 20 feet eave heights are not a problem.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, my question, which I can’t seem to find a straight answer anywhere online. Is anything needed between interior PVC panels, closed cell spray foam and the exterior metal siding? The pole barn is located in southern Indiana. It’s used as a shop and being heated occasionally with a wood stove. BENJAMIN in INDIANA

DEAR BENJAMIN: As your PVC and closed cell spray foam are both flammable, I would use an intumescent fire proof paint on interior face of closed cell spray foam, then fill balance of wall cavity (if any) with rockwool batts. As an alternative to intumescent paint, you could place sheetrock between wall framing and PVC panels (panels will lay much smoother).

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Uncategorized, Concrete, Lumber, Footings, Insulation, Building Interior, Pole Barn Questions, Columns, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Planning, Barndominium and tagged eave height, fire resistance, 6 mil plastic, climate zone 5A, fire resistant barrier, PVC, blown in insulation, insulation, precast concrete, vapor barrier, spray foam, permacolumn on February 14, 2024 by admin.

Help! Help! PEMB Insulation/Ventilation

Help! Help! PEMB Insulation/Ventilation

Reader JD in ANDERSON writes:

“Dear Guru, I am finally ready to build my dream shop, rec space. Slab is poured. Will be 30x50x16 with (2) insulated panel 12×14 overhead doors in one of the 30ft ends. My question is about ventilation / insulation. To meet my budget, I chose a cold formed steel framed building with vertical 24 gauge steel roof & siding. I want the building to be “livable” & plan to install (2) mini split heat pumps for heating & cooling. I’m in southern SC so no real extreme temps. The building co wants to insulate with Prodex sandwiched between the siding & frame. There is no finished ceiling or attic space & there is a ridge vent from end to end. When asked about how to keep heat in during the winter due to the ridge vent, they tell me “that’s not something we worry about”. Not sure what that means but I assume heat rises & will vent out the ridge making it impossible to heat. Down the rabbit hole I went. First thing I found was everyone bashing Prodex. Ok, I figure the majority of steel buildings have been insulated with faced fiberglass batt since the beginning of time, I’ll do that. Then I read about moisture & mold caused by the batt. Ok, spray foam then, perfect! Then I’m told it voids the building warranty. My head hurts! I have just about decided to spray foam anyway with 2in of close cell on the walls & the roof. But what about ventilation? The spray foam folks say that with their product there is no need to ventilation in the building at all. They say no need for the ridge vent & the closed cell will be sprayed right over it to seal it off. If I don’t use the Prodex, the building co says there will be no heat transfer break between the siding & framing. Siding will be screwed straight to metal frames. There will also be no radiant reflective barrier or vapor barrier. The spray foam place says I don’t need either. They say the miraculous closed cell foam will handle it all. Basically they are telling me that the inside of my building will be a huge styrofoam beer cooler & will need no ventilation to control moisture & there will be no heat transfer at all. This is a HUGE investment & I can only do it once. It has to be right the first time. Please help!!!! Thanks so very much!!!”

There is sadly so much bad information available.

Prodex (or any other reflective radiant barrier) is not insulation. If properly sealed, it can be an effective vapor barrier. If you use it and vent ridge, then you are correct – out ridge goes your heat.

Fiberglass is not a cause of mold and mildew, it is a symptom of a building without adequate methods of removing excess moisture.

Closed cell spray foam – ask to see a written warranty copy showing building or even steel cladding with closed cell spray foam applied will void it. Chances are very small one exists.

What would I do?

Closed cell spray foam at least two inches thick sprayed directly on inside of steel roofing and siding. No ridge vent. Have a qualified HVAC provider design a system to mechanically remove excess humidity. You will need to fire protect inside face of closed cell spray foam. This might be an option https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/08/fire-rated-spray-foam-insulation/. Intumescent paint may also be a possibility. If you want higher than R-14, you could go with thicker closed cell, add open cell to inside face of closed cell, or add unfaced batts (my preference would be rockwool)

This entry was posted in Budget, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Design, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Barndominium, Ventilation, Building Interior and tagged Prodex, reflective radiant barrier, closed cell spray foam, insulation, PEMB, spray foam, rock wool insulation, Ventilation on January 25, 2024 by admin.

Fill to Grade, XPS Between Steel and Framing, and a Post Frame Home

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru advises readers on adding 6″ fill to the site and the affect it would have on columns, the use of XPS insulation between the steel and framing of the building, and some thoughts on building a 3 bedroom, two bath house.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, The site I am looking to build a pole barn had to be filled to bring the area up to a level grade. The depth of the fill is about 6′ at the deepest point. How does this impact the setting of the post? CRAIG in EAST WATERBORO

DEAR CRAIG: Provided fill was mechanically compacted to no less than 90% of a Modified Proctor Density in lifts no greater than six inches, it can be treated as native soil. If proper compaction was not achieved, then columns should be lengthened in order to provide full embedment into undisturbed soil beneath fill.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: So I was going to place 2 layers of 1″ xps foam under my metal on the walls and roof of my pole barn. So it would be, purlins 2 1inch of xps and then my metal, is this a good or bad idea? Thanks BJ in JACKSON

DEAR BJ: Absolutely a bad idea. Pole barns “work” (e.g. stay standing) due to shear strength of steel sheeting (or OSB, plywood, etc., if used). When you place insulation boards between steel and framing, you are severely impacting ability of steel to carry those loads, as steel can shift slightly under wind loads. Eventually this will cause screw shank deformation (would take some very long screws), as well as slotting under screw gaskets, creating leaking (provided building doesn’t just fail first). If you really want to use XPS sheets, cut them to fit snugly between purlins and girts, taping all edges to achieve a tight seal.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I would like to think of something for my 2 boys and I. One story 3 bed 2 bath. Living room dining room kitchen, laundry room with walk in closets. About what size would you recommend? SHANNON in KIPTON

DEAR SHANNON: In order to determine best size for any particular client, I encourage them (and you) to utilize links found at #3 in this article https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2021/02/a-shortlist-for-smooth-barndominium-sailing/ This will assist you to work towards your ideal dream home, within budget.

This entry was posted in Footings, Columns, Pole Barn Homes, Uncategorized, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Planning, Barndominium, Pole Building Siding, floorplans and tagged fill to grade, barndominium, Post Frame Home, fill, site prep, column depth, insulation, XPS on January 10, 2024 by admin.

Ceiling Liner, Double trusses, and a Second floor

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about what best installed between ceiling liner and trusses and insulation recommendations in a new shop, advice on sidewall column size for use with double trusses, and the structural stability of a pole barn second floor.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Just built a 40x60x11 pole barn on the eastern shore of MD. Approx. 20×40 will be garage workshop, the rest will have a kitchen and bathroom etc. going to use liner panel for ceiling, what do I, if anything needs to use between the liner and the trusses? Insulation recommendation? Product recommendations are appreciated! Thank you, LYNN in SHARPTOWN

DEAR LINN: There is not a Code requirement for a barrier between trusses and liner panels in your climate zone. If you are considering blowing in cellulose, chemicals in cellulose can react with steel panels to cause premature deterioration, so a barrier should then be used. My first choice would be blown granulated rockwool, second would be fiberglass. Make sure to have adequate eave and ridge ventilation, in correct proportions.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Went reading your blog on double truss system, if wanting to erect a pole barn 30×78. Would using 4×6 be ok going 12 ft high post spaced every 8 foot other then 2 16 openings. BRIAN in PADUCAH

DEAR BRIAN: Thank you for being a reader of my articles. Even with a very low design wind speed, low risk occupancy and a well-protected site, it is unlikely 4×6 columns would be adequate to properly carry design loads, given your eave height. As you are possibly considering utilization of ganged (double) trusses, and will need larger columns anyhow, you may want to consider increasing column spacing to 12 feet on center. Fewer holes to dig, fewer columns to set and your budget will be much happier. In any case, I would encourage you to invest in a fully engineered building – any possible savings you might believe you would attain without engineering, will be quickly eaten up when you have a failure.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m wondering if this would be structurally sound with a top floor on it? It would be meant as a home/business. I work in the commercial construction industry I guess the other question is do you have any of these in New Hampshire? Please let me know what you think and Thank you. JOE in HUDSON

DEAR JOE: My own post-frame building has a 48′ x 60′ main center section. Downstairs has a clearspan floor (yes, spanning 48 feet), with a 16 foot high ceiling. Upstairs is a full living area, again with 16 foot high ceilings. A portion of this upper level also has a small mezzanine. Overall building height at peak of roof is 44 feet. So, in answer to your question – fully engineered post-frame construction lends itself very well to multiple stories (up to three stories and 40′ tall sidewalls, or four stories and 50′ tall sidewalls with fire suppression sprinklers). We have provided over 100 of our buildings to clients in New England states, including a dozen or so in New Hampshire.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Trusses, Ventilation, Barndominium, Building Interior, Shouse, Insulation, Columns, Pole Barn Questions, Lofts, Pole Barn Design, Constructing a Pole Building and tagged column size, Barrier, insulation, second floor, liner panels, attic insulation, double truss, post frame second floor, double truss system on January 3, 2024 by admin.

Spray Foam Insulation on Interior Surfaces of Metal Panels

Spray Foam Insulation on Interior Surfaces of Metal Panels

Information excerpted from MBCI.com

When it comes to insulating a building envelope, there are various methods that can be used depending on the building’s purpose and the required level of insulation. However, combining metal roof and wall panels with spray polyurethane foam insulation (SPF) is widely considered one of the most effective ways to achieve secure, strong, and long-lasting insulation. Utilizing this method of insulation offers numerous benefits including the sealing of panel joints, creating a vapor barrier, providing thermal insulation, and producing air barriers.

One of the most notable advantages of utilizing SPF insulation is that it can be used to fill spaces in the panel assemblies and function as a key component of an air barrier system, effectively reducing air leakage. However, there are a few design parameters to be mindful of when considering the use of SPF insulation for metal roof or wall panels. The Spray Polyurethane Foam Alliance (SPFA) has conducted research on the installation of SPF on steel panels and has suggested the following best practices for applying SPF to the interior surface of metal panels:

Closed-cell foam is recommended due to its water-resistant capabilities.

SPF is a recognized insulation material to be used below and in contact with through-fastened metal roof assemblies.

The surface of the metal panel being sprayed should be free from moisture, lubricants, dirt, or other contamination.

The technique used to apply the SPF can affect the performance and appearance of the foamed panels.

Using a release fabric membrane between foam and a metal panel in a wall assembly is not recommended due to the potential of creating voids between the SPF and the wall panel.

There is potential for stress-induced deformation (or “oil canning”) on 29 gauge or thinner material. (This can be minimized by following the foam manufacturers’ recommended application technique.)

Always follow national and local code requirements for fire protection. Exposed SPF may require an additional thermal barrier or other means for fire protection.

Consider using an SPF contractor accredited by SPFA’s Professional Certification Program (1) (compliant with ISO 17024) to provide high-quality and safe installation of SPF insulation.

It is important that a certified foam spray technician applies SPF to the required insulation thickness to achieve the optimum insulation density, adhesion, and thickness. The recommended application method when applying the foam is to use the controlled thickness spray technique, commonly known as the “picture frame” technique. SPFA describes this technique as if someone were following through the motion of picture framing, in which the applicator surrounds the interior perimeter of the wall framing stud and allows the foam to rise along the stud. This technique can also help to prevent SPF from getting between girts and architectural metal wall panels which could cause metal deformation.

The thickness of the initial pass fillet during picture framing should be at least 0.5 inch and should not exceed the maximum pass thickness recommended by the foam manufacturer. The minimum thickness of the initial pass is specified to provide enough material to activate the blowing agent and initiate the cure. After picture framing the perimeter of the area, the applicator fills in the center of the cavity using the maximum thickness recommended by the foam manufacturer. Maximum pass thickness varies by foam formulation and is listed in the technical data for each SPF product. Excessive pass thickness can result in inferior quality due to the increase in foam temperature during curing. For most closed-cell SPF, the maximum pass thickness is 1.5 to 2 inches. It is important for applicators of closed-cell SPF to follow manufacturers’ installation instructions on pass thickness limits and proper cooling times between subsequent passes made if they wish to develop the desired total thickness of the insulation.

Installers are trained to check the substrate surface for moisture, dirt, oils, rust, or other conditions that can interfere with proper foam adhesion. It is also important to clean the surface of these contaminants prior to spraying the insulation. If there is uncertainty surrounding the amount of adhesion needed for a metal surface, this can be determined onsite using a pull-tester in accordance with ASTM (American Society for Testing and Materials) D 4541 (Standard Test Method for Pull-Off Strength of Coatings Using Portable Adhesion Testers).

When the time comes to change an outdated or damaged panel, many SPF contractors use a release material such as building wrap or fabric to allow for a seamless and pain-free swap out. However, it is important to keep in mind that the use of a release material poses the potential of creating air gaps between the back of the SPF foam and the metal panel. These gaps could allow condensation to accumulate between the SPF and the panel and framing members.

Closed-cell Spray Polyurethane Foam is a viable insulation material for the interior surfaces of steel and aluminum metal wall panels. This foam application can be highly nuanced, and there is a possibility of deformation, distortion, or oil canning if the application of the SPF is done poorly

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Ventilation, Uncategorized, Building Interior, Insulation, Budget and tagged moisture barrier, pole building spray foam, insulation, vapor barrier, spray foam, condensation control on December 28, 2023 by admin.

Insulation and Vapor Barrier, Rich-e Board Insulation, and a Tear-Off

Today’s “ask the Guru” answers reader questions about best applications of insulation and vapor barriers, the Guru’s experience with Rich-e Board insulation, and how to avoid a “tear-off” of a roof by adding layer of framing and insulation on top of old roof.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, I am building a pole building in northern Indiana, I am looking for advice on insulation/vapor barrier locations. I have installed Tyvek on the outside before steel, will be putting wall girts and steel on interior as well. Plan is to install plastic on the inside before interior steel then blow in fiberglass insulation down in walls from top and do attic as well. I am just thinking since houses are built the same way with breathable Tyvek on the outside and the vapor barrier on the inside. Is the right way? Looking to keep the building from sweating on the inside. Thanks MICHAEL in KENDALLVILLE

DEAR MICHAEL: Internal sweating is a function of many more things than how you detail your wall insulation (you are correct in having Tyvek on exterior, vapor barrier on interior). As your building shell gets tighter, moisture is going to be trapped inside and you may need to mechanically dehumidify in order to prevent condensation. Some considerations – have a well-sealed vapor barrier under your slab, grade outside of building at no less than a 5% slope for at least 10 feet. Properly vent eaves and ridge, in correct proportions. You may want to consider your choice of blowing fiberglass into your walls, as it will settle over time, leaving a cold spot at top of wall. It is also affected by moisture. I would recommend using Rockwool batts instead.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What’s your experience with Rich-e board insulation? TERRY in NORTHPORT

DEAR TERRY: I wrote an article about Rich-e board not long after product was first announced (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2016/11/one-inch-insulation-r-50/). I reached out to them when I was looking at doing a tear off reroof of my then home at Newman Lake, Washington. I was unable to ever even be able to obtain a quote from them. As best I can tell, it appears this business has permanently closed.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’ve got a pole building/residence I was wanting to avoid a tear off, was thinking of using roof hugger stand offs and wanted to insulate on top of old steel. Thoughts? Could go with 2” blue board I guess. Since you’re up at Newman lake, any thoughts on contractors in NE WA? Thank you. TERRY in NORTHPORT

DEAR TERRY: Hansen Pole Buildings’ warehouse had a 40 plus year old steel roof, it leaked water like a colandar. We also wanted to add overhangs to eaves and endwalls. In order to overlay our old roof (building is 96′ x 96′), we placed 2×8 rafters at each existing truss, fastening through into truss top chords. We then joist hung 2×6 purlins between each rafter. Although we did not insulate (building is cold storage), we could have placed R-30 Rockwool batts between purlins. As long as your underlying old steel roofing is able to withstand any shear loads imposed, then pretty much any well thought out design solution would work. Ideally, you should engage a Registered Professional Engineer to evaluate your current structure and design a best structural solution. Least expensive, provided you can access underside of roof, your least expensive will be a tear off. If you have an attic space, order roof steel with an Integral Condensation Control factory applied. Any contractor who you would consider hiring should be booked out for at least a year, if not longer, and will want a premium unless they just happen to live nearby.

This entry was posted in Rebuilding Structures, Insulation, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, purlins, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure and tagged housewrap, tyvek, Rich-E-Board, tear-off roofing, insulation, vapor barrier on November 22, 2023 by admin.

Barndominium Bookshelf Wall Girt Ghosting

Barndominium Bookshelf Wall Girt Ghosting

Are you starting to see bookshelf wall girts through your barndominium’s gypsum wallboard (drywall)? If so, you are witnessing a phenomenon called wall ghosting.

It occurs when condensation interacts with trapped dust and can have a couple of different causes. It results in shadowy-looking lines on your walls or ceilings.

If you’ve been wondering, ‘why do I see wall girts through drywall?’ Let’s look at all the answers.

Wall ghosting is a result of trapped dust, poor circulation, and poor insulation.

In inadequately insulated walls, cold will come through, mainly at bookshelf wall girts. If barndominium inside is relatively warm, this causes bookshelf wall girts to collect moisture where they meet drywall. This moisture then traps dirt and dust circulating throughout interior air, resulting in wall ghosting.

When you see these shadowy lines, you are actually seeing trapped dust particles collecting in front of bookshelf wall girts. And unfortunately, since dust is behind wall finish, you can’t just wipe it down.

Biggest thing you can do to stop ghosting on your walls is to find and fix cold air sources. This can include sealing all exterior surfaces, as well as sealing doors and windows.

If ghosting results from poor or no insulation, having your walls insulated may be your best bet.

Other things you can do include replacing your furnace filters regularly, making sure any indoor stoves are adequately vented, and keeping indoor humidity low during cold months.

Once you’ve fixed the problem source, you can get rid of these dark shadow lines by allowing drywall to completely dry out, cleaning it, and then using a high-quality primer and paint.

If you don’t fix the source, these lines will eventually show through again, even if you prime and paint.

Wall ghosting isn’t dangerous but can be a sign of poor air quality, inadequate insulation, or a combination of both. However, since ghosting results from dust build-up and not mold, it’s not usually a significant health risk.

To clean ghosting on walls, you first have to identify and fix problems. If you don’t, no cleaning method will work. However, if you have fixed root causes of your wall ghosting, here’s what to do:

Wipe down walls with an all-purpose cleaner to remove as much dirt as possible. Then, allow wall to dry.
Prime wall with a high-quality, high coverage primer.
Paint your walls.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Building How To Guides, Building Interior, Barndominium and tagged insulated walls, insulation, drywall, bookshelf wall girts, girt wall ghosting on November 7, 2023 by admin.

Properly Insulating Between Roof Purlins

Properly Insulating Between Roof Purlins

Reader SAM in MATTAWAN writes:

“Hi, I have a wood framed pole barn that is fairly unique in design and doesn’t have any “attic” space. It’s very similar to what a steel building would be. There are 2×8 roof purlins to support OSB sheathing. My question is regarding ceiling/ roof insulation and venting. I will be doing a shingle roof and vinyl siding. Since there is no attic space, are ridge and eave vents still required? And what would be recommended for insulation? Spray foam would probably be ideal, but more than likely out of budget. Would fiberglass batts be ok to use right up against roof OSB? Thanks.”

According to Martin Holladay (Green Building Advisor):

“Experts usually advise builders that you can’t install fiberglass insulation directly against the underside of roof sheathing. If you want to install fiberglass between your rafters, you have two basic choices: either include a ventilation channel between the top of the fiberglass insulation and the underside of the roof sheathing, or install enough rigid foam above the roof sheathing to keep the roof sheathing above the dew point during the winter. These rules were developed to prevent damp roof sheathing.”

With post frame construction ‘purlins’ would replace ‘rafters’ above.

You have some options….

Per IRC R806.5 (4) In Climate Zones 5, 6, 7 and 8, any air-impermeable insulation shall be a Class II vapor retarder, or shall have a Class II vapor retarder coating or covering in direct contact with the underside of the insulation.

IRC R806.5 (5.1.1) Where only air-impermeable insulation is provided, it shall be applied in direct contact with the underside of the structural roof sheathing.

My note – this would be closed cell spray foam

IRC R806.5 (5.1.2) Where air-permeable insulation is installed directly below the structural sheathing, rigid board or sheet insulation shall be installed directly above the structural roof sheathing in accordance with the R-values in Table R806.5 for condensation control.

My note – Van Buren county is in Climate Zone 5A. IRC Table R806.5 requires a minimum of R-20 for your Climate Zone. This would require R-20 rigid insulation boards on top of your roof OSB, you could then use your choice of batt insulations between purlins.

IRC R806.5 (5.1.3) Where both air-impermeable insulation and air-permeable insulation are provided, the air-impermeable insulation shall be applied in direct contact with the underside of the structural roof sheathing in accordance with item 5.1.1 and shall be in accordance with the R-values in Table R806.5 for condensation control. The air-permeable insulation shall be installed directly under the air-permeable insulation.

My note – this would require R-20 (roughly 3 inches) of closed cell spray foam applied directly to the underside of your OSB sheathing, with a balance of insulation (either batts or open cell spray foam) applied directly below between purlins.

In summary – do not vent your eaves and ridge, and fiberglass batts between roof purlins may not be used directly below roof sheathing without either R-20 insulation directly above or below roof deck.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure and tagged air-impermeable insulation, rigid insulation boards, insulation, roof purlins, closed cell spray foam insulation, vapor retarder, air- on October 31, 2023 by admin.

Insulation/Envelope, Egress Window in Gable, and Ribbed Steel Testing

Today’s Ask the Guru tackles reader questions about how to best insulate/envelope a pole barn shop in AZ, if the Guru has “an engineered work around for gable ends so I could replace the vent with an egress window,” and trying to find out if pole barn ribbed siding is tested under NFPA275 to be used to finish the inside when the walls are spray foamed.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, I am currently being approved from my lender to build a 30’x40’x10′ pole barn shop. I will have 12″ eaves with soffit vents. The shop will be climate controlled 365 days a year. I am getting lots of different advice on insulation/building envelope. I wanted to get your opinion. I do not think spray foam will be in my budget. Could I use Tyvek wrap with fiberglass batts in walls and blow in fiberglass in ceiling? Or should I use something like Solarguard under the roof, and Tyvek on the walls. I would appreciate any suggestions you may have. I want to get this build right. If you could send me your reply to my email that would be great! Thanks so much. SHAWN in NOBLE

DEAR SHAWN: Noble is in Climate Zone 3A, where I would not typically have recommended spray foam insulation anyhow. Roof – Solarguard is not insulation. Order roof steel with an Integral Condensation Control factory applied (Condenstop or Dripstop are a couple of brand names of I.C.C.). Blow in R-49 fiberglass or granulated mineral wool (best), above ceiling, using raised heel trusses to get full depth of insulation from wall-to-wall. Ventilate eaves and ridge. Walls – Housewrap between steel siding and bookshelf wall girts. Unfaced R-20 (or greater) batts either fiberglass, or better yet mineral wool, with a well-sealed interior vapor barrier. Slab – if not doing radiant in floor heat, use R-10 rigid insulation on inside of pressure treated splash plank, from top of slab down two feet. If using radiant floor heat, then R-10 at slab edge and a minimum of R-5 continuous under slab.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Do you have an engineered work around for gable ends so I could replace the vent with an egress window? BRUCE in GOLDENDALE

DEAR BRUCE: It is likely it can be done however it may require other structural modifications in order to not compromise shear integrity of your endwall. You should reach out to a competent local Registered Professional Engineer who can do a physical site evaluation and then design a proper structural fix.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m a bldg. inspector and we’re trying to find out if pole barn ribbed siding is tested under NFPA275 to be used to finish the inside when the walls are spray foamed and if so is there a certain gauge that is only approved? Thanks ROBERT in ALBERT LEA

DEAR ROBERT: Ribbed steel siding does meets UL 790 Fire Resistance Class A requirements, however I am not finding any evidence of testing to prove it meets NFPA 275. I did find evidence of IMP (Insulated Metal Panels) with 26 gauge interior facings probably meeting requirements, however it would be up to the individual Code Official to make a judgment as to whether, in their opinion, 26 gauge panels would be adequate. https://www.metalconstruction.org/view/download.php/online-education/education-materials/imp-educational-materials/fire-safety In my humble opinion, best practice would be to use an intumescent fire proof paint on interior surface of spray foam, prior to installation of interior steel liner panels.

This entry was posted in Windows, Insulation, Building Interior, Pole Barn Questions, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Heating, Building Styles and Designs, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Building Siding, Ventilation and tagged NFPA 275, fire retardant steel, UL 790, adding insulation, fire retardant, Climate Zone 3A, envelope, insulation, building envelope, Gable end egress, egress window on August 23, 2023 by admin.

Converting an Unfinished Wood Frame Steel Building

Converting an Unfinished Wood Frame Steel Building

Reader GEOFF in WILLISTON writes:

“ Mike, I think I came across a response on the internet of yours to a question about installing liner panels on the bottom chord of trusses and blowing insulation over the top. If memory serves me the question included the position of the vapor barrier on the liner side of the insulation. You had also recommended 2″ of spray foam on the underside of the roof panels to control condensation. My customer is converting an unfinished wood framed metal building into an equipment wash bay. I’m recommending spray foam on walls with liner panels over and liner panels affixed to the bottom cord of the trusses above. Do you think a vapor barrier on the bottom chords before liner panels, then blown insulation and spray foam on the underside of roof panels, and some power venting of the “attic” space should be about as effective as can reasonably be expected? (Trusses at 6′ O.C. with some supported added between.) “

I tend to agree with building scientist and founding principal of Building Science Corporation Joe Lstiburek.

Joe stated, “Plastic vapor barriers should only be installed in vented attics in climates with more than 8,000 heating degree days.”

Read more on degree days here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2022/11/what-is-degree-day/

What is Degree Day? – Hansen Buildings

According to Joe Lstiburek, “Plastic vapor barriers should only be installed in vented attics in climates with more than 8,000 heating degree days.”

www.hansenpolebuildings.com

In our climate, I would only install a ceiling vapor barrier above steel liner panels if I was intending to use blown cellulose for attic insulation. This is due to chemicals added to cellulose to prevent combustion tend to degrade steel if moisture is present. I would much rather see blown in granulated rockwool (my first choice) or fiberglass.

Attic ventilation is going to be critical here and is best resolved with adequate eave and ridge vents, rather than trying to be reliant upon an exhaust fan or fans.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Structure, Trusses, Ventilation and tagged insulation, vapor barrier, condensation, blow in insulation, spray foam, bottom chord of trusses on July 18, 2023 by admin.

Thinking Stick Frame Rather Than Post Frame

Thinking Stick Frame Rather Than Post Frame

Reader BRAD writes:“Real question…I’ve been doing lots of reading and love this site. I am building a 40x60x14 this spring. I originally thought I was going to go pole barn and now I am thinking stick frame. Reason….1. I am going to have insulated concrete foundation with in floor heating piping installed right away. (mono slab). 2. I am planning on fully finishing the inside insulation electrical, etc. in the future. What I’ve seen with post frame is that they are cheaper to build initially but if you are planning on finishing the inside there is substantial lumber and framing that needs to be done for interior walls and interior ceiling. It appears “at the end of the day” a finished pole barn is not much cheaper than a stick frame. I also question if it would be a lot more time trying to frame an interior post frame with 16” o/c studs and finishing a ceiling with 4’ or longer truss spacing vs 2’ with conventional stick frame. I am doing all metal exterior with 2’ o/c stud purlins on side walls vs osb sheathing. I know you can spray closed cell spray foam but again that is more than triple the price vs bats and vapor barrier that you can only do with 24”or16” o/c framing.

Am I way off base on this theory or is there any truth to my thinking?”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru responds:
I just don’t see reason number one as a reason at all. A plethora of post frame buildings (my own included) utilize radiant in-floor heat. In order to stick frame, you are going to have to thicken your slab edges, or pour a continuous footing and stem wall, in order to provide adequate support for your now load bearing walls. This is going to result in added expenses for forming, regardless of your choice (before even considering extra concrete required). While anchor bolts for stud walls are relatively inexpensive, they do require some effort to be properly placed in order to avoid hitting studs and plates need to be drilled to account for them.

In order to stick frame without added engineering, your wall heights are going to be limited by Building Codes. To attach steel siding, you will need to add horizontal framing outside of your studs (scarily, I did see a builder post photos of vertical steel siding, screwed to vertical studs), resulting in two sets of framing, extra pieces to handle, cut and install. By using commercial style bookshelf wall girts in post frame, no extra framing is required in order to attach exterior steel siding and wall finish of your choice. As post frame buildings transfer gravity loads from roof-to-ground via columns, eliminating (in most instances) any need for structural headers.

Using prefabricated metal connector plated wood trusses, in pairs, directly aligned with columns (most often placed every 12 feet), does require ceiling joists to be placed between truss pairs. This can all be done on the ground, then cranked into place using winch boxes, with no need for other heavy lifting equipment.

When all is said and done, fully engineered post frame construction will always be more cost effective than stick frame, more structurally sound and afford a greater ability to super insulate, regardless of one’s choice of insulation systems.

This entry was posted in Trusses, Concrete, Pole Barn Questions, Columns, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure and tagged pole barn, purlins, osb sheathing, pole barn truss spacing, closed cell spray foam, truss spacing, stick frame, insulation, lumber framing on July 13, 2023 by admin.

Pole Barn Conversion, Condensation Concerns, and Setting Trusses

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions regarding converting a section of an existing building into living space, concerns about condensation in an insulated wall, and a concern about setting trusses too soon following a concrete pour.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello! We have a pole barn already built, 60×80, and we’ve decided to build living quarters in a 30×60 portion of the barn. We want to put a second level in the living quarters. We’ve done a 2ft monolithic pour that extends to the footings, around the exterior, 6-8inch thick concrete with steel grates underneath. We’ve done a 2ft by 3ft thick concrete footer underneath each pole. There are 16 total. Is this something that could be turned into engineered living space with a second story space (30×30)? Thanks in advance. KAITLIN in EDEN

DEAR KAITLIN: Most pole barns are built either without being engineered or to Risk Category I. For residential purposes, it would need to meet more stringent structural requirements of Risk Category II. You will probably have to add some perimeter slab insulation in order to meet Energy Code requirements. My best recommendation is to engage a Utah Registered Professional Engineer to do a physical evaluation of your existing building and to design needed structural upgrades.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello I recently built a post frame home and I have a question for you regarding the insulation on the walls. The exterior walls are 6×6 posts with 2×6 flat girts and a well-sealed WRB then steel. I used R-21 fiberglass with bookshelves girts on the inside of the wall then applied a 6 mil vapor barrier with acoustical caulk and tape to achieve a tight seal. Do you see any issues with this system in the long or short term as far as condensation and air sealing because of the lack of OSB or plywood sheathing on the outside? WESLEY in DULUTH

DEAR WESLEY: I have seen many far less well thought out wall systems without exterior sheathing not experience issues with condensation. As far as air sealing, you could get a blower door test done to find out exactly what your situation is. For extended reading, please see https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/10/blower-door-testing-your-new-barndominium-part-i/ and https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/10/blower-door-testing-your-new-barndominium-part-ii/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am getting ready to pour my footing for my posts and am wondering how long I wait for the concrete to cure before setting the trusses, etc TRIPPE in NINE MILE FALLS

DEAR TRIPPE: We always suspend our columns eight (8) inches above bottom of holes and mono-pour footing and concrete encasement in a single pour (saves on paying for short haul charges). While concrete typically reaches 75% of compressive strength in seven days, when I was building we would pour one day and start building next day. For slabs on grade, it is recommended to not walk on them for 24-48 hours after a pour. Keep in mind, concrete compressive strength is in psi (pounds per square inch) and soil bearing capacity under footing is in psf (pounds per square foot). Most soil will support a maximum of 2000 psf or 13.88 psi, so your concrete (at 2500-3000 psi) is going to be much stronger, even after a very short time span, than soils beneath. You can increase concrete strength by ordering a higher cement mix and speed curing time by use of hot water (avoid use of chemical additives to speed curing).

This entry was posted in Footings, Insulation, Rebuilding Structures, Constructing a Pole Building, Building Interior, Pole Barn Planning, Professional Engineer, Columns, Lofts, Pole Barn Homes, Trusses, Post Frame Home, Ventilation, Barndominium, Concrete and tagged pole barn conversion, residential addition, R-III, concrete pour, insulation, vapor barrier, condensation, setting trusses, occupancy classification, R-1 on June 21, 2023 by admin.

Pool Insulation, Span Tables for Floor Joists, and Post Brackets

Today the Pole barn Guru addresses reader questions about the use of 2″ Dow Styrofoam sheets to help insulate and above ground pool, advice for a structurally sound 20×40 room with a loft in a building, and if post can be set onto a cinderblock wall.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I live in Minnesota and wanted to insulate my above ground pool. I cut sheets of 2” Dow styrofoam to fit in between the legs of the pool. I want to use pole barn steel to surround the pool frame to hide the styrofoam, any ideas? SHERRIE in MINNESOTA

DEAR SHERRIE: Maybe I should also be known as “Pool Barn Guru” LOL. All joking aside, if top and bottom edge of your pool support system are wooden, you could order steel panels to your pool’s vertical dimension (I’d probably hold top edge down somewhat to avoid folks being cut from top edge of steel) and screw panels directly to top and bottom supports. You could also reach out to your pool provider for suggestions. Best of success.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My 40’x60’x16’ shop is almost done being built. I’m wanting to do a 20×40 room in the back wall for a man cave type area, I can build the room no problem. The only thing I’m wondering is about the loft above the room. I’m having trouble figuring out what I need to do to build that 20×40 loft that will be structurally sound. What do I need to span 20’ for the floor without putting posts in the middle of the man cave. VINCENT in EAST ALTON

DEAR VINCENT: Luckily there are readily available span tables for floor joists. 2×12 #1 on 12″ centers https://www.southernpine.com/app/uploads/SPtable2_060113.pdf

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can you put the posts on a cinderblock wall that has enlarged footers under the block wall. I have a 30×30 continuous footer under the cinder block wall where I want to put the posts. The cinderblock wall is filled with concrete. Let me know your thoughts please? And thanks in advance. TAMI in MADISON

DEAR TAMI: Provided footings beneath your CMU wall are adequate in dimension, probably. In areas of your existing wall where ICC ESR approved engineered wet-set brackets for columns will be placed, existing blocks will need to be removed and replaced, so brackets can be properly poured into wall. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/05/sturdi-wall-plus-concrete-brackets/

This entry was posted in Lumber, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Building Interior, Columns and tagged floor joists, Post brackets, Styrofoam insulation, loft floor joists, insulation, wet set brackets on May 17, 2023 by admin.

Dead Air as an Insulator

Dead Air as an Insulator

Are you considering building a climate controlled post-frame building? If so, then proper insulation is (or should be) at the top of your list.

If you have not seen ridiculous claims of double digit R-values from reflective radiant barriers yet (aka ‘bubble wrap insulation”) you will. Read more about these claims here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/04/reflective-insulation-wars/

Reflective radiant barrier manufacturers base their R-value claims upon an assembly including a 100% sealed dead air space on one or both sides of their products. In all reality, it is impossible to achieve this in real world construction.

For many years buildings have been built with an air space between building cladding and batt insulation in wall cavities. This air space did, in fact, help circulate air inside the wall and ventilate humidity through the wall. Now, as we increase wall air tightness quality and increase insulation levels, this air space no longer serves a ventilating function. Being on modern heavy insulation outside, it is too cold to help much with ventilation, and convection currents in this air space can actually make condensation problems worse. In addition, this air space is not a very good insulator. It is now recommended that all space between inside wall finishes (such as gypsum wall board) and outside cladding be filled with insulation, leaving no air space. Again – when insulating an exterior wall, don’t leave any air space.

Improper installation techniques with batt insulation can cost you 20% of an exterior wall’s insulating value from air spaces in hidden corners. This radically increases thermal bridging through framing members. If, on these same walls, you have an accidental space between insulation and vapor barrier, an air current can loop around insulation taking heat directly from warm interior finishes to cold cladding.

For an air space between wall insulation and interior finishes, vapor barrier location is critical. If an air space is between insulation and vapor barrier, air will rise because of building warmth. This air movement will find its way through or around insulation to cold side, where it will fall due to cladding’s colder surface. When insulation completely fills space between wall girts this looping is minimal. When insulation is installed less than perfectly, this looping force will accelerate. If there are open triangular corner spaces as mentioned above, this becomes a pump moving heat from interior finish to cladding as if there was no insulation there at all.

When there is an air space between vapor barrier and interior finish, nothing happens. Temperature goes from cool on bottom to warm on top but air in this space has no access to cold exterior cladding. It may circulate but it has no more effect than room air circulation.

Years ago walls were constructed to leave an air space between exterior wall framing and interior finishes. This was enough thermal break to stop condensation from forming on interior finishes in line with wall girts. With modern construction and heavier insulation, there is no longer a condensation problem on interior finishes caused by girts being cold. (There still is heat loss and in some climate zones building codes now actually require sheet insulation over all wall girts, either inside, or outside.) An air space’s insulating value is very small compared to the same thickness of any insulation.

Trapped air is an excellent insulator. Air moving freely carries heat. Circulating air, such as in a wall cavity, is effective at pumping heat from warm side to cold side. Not an insulator, in other words.

To be effective at isolating heat, air must be confined, trapped in tiny spaces, like in fibers of fiberglass, rock wool, or cellulose. Foam is particularly good at trapping air. So you take a not a very good heat conductor product and arrange for it to have many tiny cells able to capture air.

This entry was posted in Building Interior, Insulation, Constructing a Pole Building, Ventilation and tagged sheet insulation, Ventilation, thermal bridging, thermal break, cladding, radiant barrier, insulation, gypsum wall board, vapor barrier, convection, condensation, climate controlled, batt insulation, cold cladding on May 4, 2023 by admin.

Endwall Overhangs, Foundation Insulation, and Sloping Ground

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about setting trusses on a Hansen Building with endwall overhangs, a solution for an insulation question, and the possibility of building on steep sloping ground with some exposed columns.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Are all trusses set at the same height are the end trusses lower so the purlins hang over the end truss by 2 feet? TROY in SCAPPOOSE

DEAR TROY: Thank you for your investment into a new Hansen Pole Building.

For quickest answers to technical support questions, please refer to Page 2 of your Construction Manual.

Our buildings are designed to maximize interior clear height, so roof purlins are joist hung into sides of interior truss top chords (Detail 5/S-3 of your engineer sealed plans). In order to support endwall overhangs, roof purlins go across end trusses (detail 9/S-4). With a 5/12 roof slope and 2×8 roof purlins, this requires lowering end trusses by 7-5/8″ as shown on Sheet S-4 of plans.

You will want to review and familiarize yourself with Construction Manual Chapter 55.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi Mike! I’ve been looking for a good answer to a question that I have, your profile name suggests you might just be the guy to ask! I very much would like to put a upcoming post frame building project on a 6ft frost protected foundation, 4 ft below, and 2 foot above grade. The building will be heated and cooled, and I just have not come across the best detail on how to insulate, protect the exterior insulation, and flash between the exterior steel and the foundation insulation. What is the best way to go about this to balance R-value, appearance, and durability that come with that 2ft of above grade foundation wall. Thank you for your time! CODY in WISCONSIN

DEAR CODY: In my humble opinion, foundation walls for post frame buildings defeat much of the cost savings with little or no added benefit. I will now step off my soap box….

You can achieve same (if not better) results by adding insulation board to inside of your wall. It also takes away protection and flashing challenges. Look at using Rockwool Comfortboard 80.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can any of your buildings be built where the back half of the building is suspended on poles…..because the ground slopes downhill? What about zoning? Do you check with my county to find out whether or not I can have a building? DAVID in WESTMINSTER

DEAR DAVID: Yes, some or all of your new Hansen Pole Building can be suspended on poles (basically a partial ‘stilt’ house). https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/09/stilt-houses/

While we do not check with your county to find out whether or not you can have a building, it is a very pain free process for you to confirm: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/01/your-barndominiums-planning-department/

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Structure, Post Frame Home, Trusses, Insulation, Concrete, Pole Barn Questions, Footings, Pole Barn Design, Columns, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning and tagged insulation, foundation insulation, Sloped ground, truss installation, endwall overhangs, sloping site, Stem wall, trusses, stilt construction on April 19, 2023 by admin.

Updates to Make to Your Pole Barn in 2023

Entering the new year comes with resolutions, and while some may be personal, there are plenty that end up becoming a part of your to-do list. Starting with a clean slate means you can really hone in on what improvements you may need, or what you really want to take on over the next few months. Far too often, we think that resolutions need to be focused on health alone, but it’s important to note that these goals can be attached to your home, business, or family in the new year. If there are some renovations you have been meaning to make but have not been able to, consider adding them to your resolution list! In fact, here are a few updates you can plan to do in 2023 to make your pole barn project a successful one.

Whether you’re building a new pole barn or updating an existing structure, structural integrity should always be a top priority. Items that may be great for fire resistance, insulation, or durability, are essential to the structure. But, make sure that these products are actually healthy for you to be around too! You’ll want to keep these tips for a barn build in mind to avoid common and potentially damaging mistakes people make when constructing or making updates to the building.

Insulation is worth adding in if you plan on making this space multi-use, recreational, or your home. Pole barns for hay or other items may not need insulation, but even a greenhouse facility will need insulation of some sort. We’ve stated before how important insulation is for a pole barn, so don’t go skipping this step if you want a long-lasting building. However, if your building is going through renovations, it’s vital to make sure that what you already have installed won’t be damaging to the building or your health.

If you’re working with a contractor, it’s wise to double-check their work; don’t be afraid to ask questions when updating areas like insulation or new roofing. Sometimes, the cheaper option can hurt you along the way. In fact, there are plenty of older construction products that can harm your health, so taking the time to safely replace cheap materials with more durable options can be key to long-standing projects.

Another thing to consider, as previously mentioned, is your roofing. Your roof is the first line of defense for your pole barn when it comes to mother nature, so it’s essential that you’re prepared for whatever may come your way, be it snow, wind, rain, or unpredictable natural disasters. The materials you choose for your pole barn roof are an important decision, so doing your research can make a considerable difference in future maintenance. For example, metal roofs will be able to withstand hail and snow, but knowing what thickness provides greater protection can be the difference in replacing it in the future.

While the new year may bring new challenges, and a whole slew of different projects you may want to take on, make sure to take a step back and make sure that every update you make not only creates something solid for years to come but protects you along the way. After all, as the saying goes, it’s better to measure twice and cut once than the other way around!

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Building Interior, Uncategorized, Skylights, Insulation, RV Storage, Building Overhangs, Post Frame Home, Roofing Materials, Shouse, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning and tagged pole barn, fire resistance, resolution, recreational, insulation on April 11, 2023 by admin.

Doggie Day Care

Hi Guru, I Need Your Guidance

Reader CHRISTINA in MILFORD writes:

“Hi guru, I need your guidance. I am looking to build a 30x135x14 commercial building for dog daycare. I have no experience in building/ordering a pole barn and want to get it right.

Bullet points: I need 4000 sq ft. broken down: 3000 for daycare with 1 garage, 1000 with garage for any type of renter to take an income. Side note: I did 14 feet for a car lift if renter was a mechanic. Question: is 30 wide the most cost effective width for my usage?

Insulation-would like it to be energy efficient: what is best to keep heat in? Spray foam or fiberglass. What rating/factors? Ceiling-thinking 10 ft ceiling to keep heat low. What’s best material for ceiling? Acoustical tiles 2×2, metal, or sheetrock. Will I need a vapor barrier? Spray foam, loose fiberglass bail or fiberglass rolls?

Gauge: what is the best gauge for my usage? Ventilation: what are soffit vents and do I need them in my structure in summer to release hot air from the ceiling. What is the best way to keep the structure cool/warm? Windows: would you recommend a window(s) high up that can be opened to have cross ventilation or a way to get rid of hot air? Concrete-radiant floor (hot water with pex) enough to keep dogs and employees warm or do I need a HVAC system too. Please include anything else I might have missed. Gotta get it right the 1st time. Thank you!!!”

Thank you for reaching out to me.

In answer to your questions:

Buildings closer to square are more cost effective than long, narrow ones. They reduce surface area of walls – so less expense in siding and interior finishes, as well as lower utility costs. Long, narrow buildings also put greater wind shear loads on roofs at each end as well as endwalls. This can result in a need to add structural sheathing to portions, adding to your investment further.

If you are considering your renter may be in automotive repair, you may want to consider a 40′ width, as it would allow for two standard vehicles to be parked inside end-to-end.

Pike County is in Climate Zone 5A

Under 2021’s IECC (International Energy Conservation Code) for commercial buildings Ceilings should be R-49, Walls R-20 plus R-3.8 continuous, slab R-15 three foot down at perimeter and R-5 under slab itself.

For roof system – order 29 gauge roof steel (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/01/steel-thickness/) with an Integral condensation control factory applied (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/), vent eaves and ridge in correct proportions (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/03/adequate-eave-ridge-ventilation/), raised heel trusses (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/raised-heel-trusses/), blow in R-49 of granulated rockwool (personally, I would do R-60).

Walls – commercial bookshelf wall girts (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/09/commercial-girts-what-are-they/), Weather Resistant Barrier between framing and wall steel (think Tyvek or similar), unfaced Rockwool Batts with well-sealed 1″ Rockwool Comfortboard 80 applied to interior of wall framing.

Slab – at edges 4″ Rockwool Comfortboard 80 applied to inside face of splash plank and down vertically 3′. 1-1/4″ Rockwool Comfortboard 80 under slab.

I would use 5/8″ Type X drywall for the ceiling, without a vapor barrier. You will need to fire separate between rental shop and doggie day care. For the sake of making certain almost any occupancy will be allowed, plan on two layers of 5/8″ Type X on each side of the wall with no penetrations between.

Besides your radiant floor heat, I would also plan on an HVAC system capable of controlling humidity.

Most jurisdictions require a pre-application conference for commercial buildings, you will want to verify if this is available (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/01/pre-application-conference/).

This entry was posted in Animal shelter, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Planning, Workshop Buildings, Commercial Buildings and tagged soffit vents, sheetrock ceiling, insulation, vapor barrier, fiberglass insulation, spray foam, radiant floor heat on March 28, 2023 by admin.

Insulation, Truss Spans, and Pit Material

Today’s Ask the Pole Barn Guru discusses reader questions about an option to layer insulation between purlins, the actual building width for 36′ trusses, and the recommendation against the use pit material when performing site prep.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi, I have the traditional roll type insulation with the white backing. My question is if I’m able to add more insulation between the purlins on top of the existing insulation for added r value and what type would you recommend if so? Thanks OWEN in VIVIAN

DEAR OWEN: Metal Building Insulation (MBI) is not my favorite design solution for post frame insulation (read more here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/11/metal-building-insulation/).

You can add more insulation to interior of what you have, without having to perforate white vinyl of you MBI. I would recommend adding unfaced Rockwool, as it is not affected by moisture and has a relatively high R value per inch of thickness compared to fiberglass or cellulose. Do not add another interior vapor barrier, as this would allow for moisture to become trapped between two vapor barriers.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: You really are a wealth of knowledge. I’ve been watching your Youtube videos as well, very helpful.

I’m intrigued by your pole barn kits, and I had just one more question about raised heel trusses:

It’s my understanding that post spans are actually building widths minus 3 inches. So for a 36 foot building, the span between posts is 35’ 9”, correct? If that’s the case, are raised heel truss lengths in this example also 35’ 9 to the edge of the post? Or the full 36’, with the eave skirt board resting under the additional 1.5 inches of the bottom chord length?

Thanks again for your time!!! MATT in CHENEY

DEAR MATT: Our buildings (as are most Pacific Northwest Buildings) measure 36 feet from outside of column to outside of column. This allows for 12 sheets of steel plus the lap on the 12th piece (covering 36′ 1-1/2″ roughly) to be installed without having to rip the last steel panel lengthwise. Pressure preservative treated splash planks, headers, etc. will be applied to exterior faces of columns, giving a framed finished width of 36’3″.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi. In your building manual it notes not to use pit material on the building pad. If the site is leveled, I’m not sure what the function of any modified is or why no pit material in specific. We’ll be doing a slab at some point and common practice would be to put down some clean 3/4″ so if it’s beneficial to have stone on the building pad would it be more cost efficient to just put the clean stone down to start with? Thanks. KEVIN in WEST CALN

DEAR KEVIN: #1 reason to not use pit run is it is difficult to auger holes through.

#2 because it is round, it does not compact well

#3 It creates voids allowing for free flow of liquid water beneath slab

You do want to allow for two to six inches of clean sand or sandy gravel compacted immediately below your under slab vapor barrier.

This entry was posted in Pole Building How To Guides, Trusses, Concrete, Columns, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Constructing a Pole Building and tagged insulation, site prep, building width, truss span, rock wool insulation, pit material on March 15, 2023 by admin.

Order of Construction

Order of Construction

Reader DANIEL in SAINT JOSEPH writes:

“Hi Mike, I am looking to start building in the next year or two on my up north Minnesota cabin land. I was planning on doing my own general contracting to save. In what order would you recommend I schedule the subs to do their work and when should I begin finding the subs? I already have the septic and well installed for my camper.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru writes:

Here is a general construction sequence. In most instances, you want to line up your subcontractors 6-12 weeks prior to needing them. Further ahead, seems to make it difficult to get return calls. A great source of more reliable subs, is by contacting your nearest Home Builders Association and asking for referrals.

1. STAKE LOT
First step of home building is locating your new home on its lot. This will usually involve a surveyor who will come out and accurately drive stakes to locate your home on lot. They will be used by excavators and foundation subcontractors to guide their work.

2. OBTAIN PLANING, ZONING AND BUILDING PERMITS (Where required)

3. TEMPORARY UTILITIES
You will need to have water, electric power, and toilet facilities available during construction process.

4. CLEAR AND ROUGH GRADE
Clearing is removal of trees and undergrowth from actual construction site and yard areas. Rough grading is moving dirt around to establish approximate drainage patterns, yard areas, drive and walk levels, etc. you hope to achieve. Properly compact any fill in no greater than six inch lifts.

5. WELL
If you are going to have a well, you might as well dig it up front so you will have water available for construction.

6. LAY OUT BUILDING

7. DIG HOLES FOR COLUMNS OR PIERS
Call for hole inspection (where required)

8. SET COLUMNS IN HOLES OR INTO WET-SET BRACKSET Backfill per plan

9. INSTALL
a)SPLASH PLANKS
b)TRUSSES AND/OR RAFTERS
c) Purlins and all other roof framing (including ceiling joists and bracing)
d) roof steel and ridge cap (or sheathing, felt and roofing)
e) any raised wood floor framing and floor sheathing
f) Girts and all other wall framing

10. CALL FOR FRAMING INSPECTION (where required)

11. INSTALL
a) Weather Resistant Barrier over wall framing
b) Entry doors, sliding doors and windows
c) All steel wall trims except corners
d) Wall steel and corner trim

12. SEWER AND WATER TAPS

If you are connecting to municipal water and sewer, this is where pipes are laid to house and actually connected (tapped into) water and sewer mains.

13. UNDER SLAB UTILITIES
Any plumbing and electrical needs to go under concrete slab is installed here.

14. UNDER SLAB VAPOR BARRIER, UNDER SLAB AND PERIMETER SLAB INSULATION, PEX FOR RADIANT FLOOR HEAT

15. SLAB FLOOR

16. ANY STAIRS RESTING ON SLAB FLOOR
Get these in now so that the subs working inside can get from one floor to the other without depending on ladders.

17. GARAGE DOOR AND EXTERIOR LOCKS
Some people wait until end to get garage door in. But we think having it in place creates a good place to store materials and equipment during construction. Installing exterior locks means whole house is secure.

18. BACK-OUT FRAMING

This is a general category including interior room partition, soffits for wall cabinets, and drywall nailers.

19. FIREPLACE AND CHIMNEY
A prefabricated fireplace should be installed before roughs (below). A prefab will have a framed chimney. A masonry fireplace and chimney can be installed before any brick veneer.

20. ROUGH HVAC
HVAC (heating, ventilation, air conditioning) sub is first of three “mechanical” subs (plumbing, electrical, HVAC) to come to job. He will install duct work for your HVAC system and possibly furnace. He comes first because stuff he puts into walls is biggest and most inflexible.

21. ROUGH PLUMBING

Next comes plumber to install his pipes.

22. ROUGH ELECTRICAL

Codes call for house to be “dried in” before wiring is installed. With exterior windows and doors in place and roof on, it’s time. For roughs, electrician will put in boxes (switch, outlet, and lighting) and will pull wires into them. Cable, telephone, speaker wires, etc. are also installed at this point.

23. ELECTRIC & GAS METER SET
You’ll need these in place to get some heat in house for drywall installation.

24. GUTTERS AND DOWNSPOUTS
It’s good to get water away from house as soon as possible.

25. WALL INSULATION

Once everything else is in walls and rough inspections are completed, it’s time to insulate your home.

26. TEMPORARY HEAT
With meters set (above), HVAC sub can get some temporary heat going. This will be critical for getting drywall joint compound (mud) to dry in a timely fashion. Carpet sub also needs a warm home so carpet is installed at a temperature comparable to normal living conditions.

27. DRYWALL
Sometimes called “Sheetrock®.” This will be “hung” (screwed to wall girts, studs and ceiling joists), taped (at joints), and “mudded” (joint compound applied) . . . after the in-wall plumbing, HVAC, electrical, and insulation have been inspected!

28. ATTIC INSULATION

29. CABINETS
Base and wall.

30. INTERIOR DOORS AND TRIM

Trim materials installed here may include door casing, base mould, window stool and apron, window casing, chair rail, crown mould, built-in cabinets, stair railing parts, and others. This step also includes hanging doors.

31. PAINT AND WALLPAPER
First coat of paint is usually sprayed. Get it in before hard wood floors are installed.

32. HARDWOOD FLOORS
Now it’s time to install your hardwood floors.

33. COUNTER TOPS
Counter tops are next. this may involve a different sub than one who installed cabinets.

34. VINYL AND CERAMIC TILE
Vinyl floor coverings and ceramic tile are installed. Two different subs.

35. SAND ANF FINISH WOOD FLOORS

This is first of two finishes. The last is done just before you move in.

36. APPLIANCES AND SPECIAL EQUIPMENT

This would include all of your major appliances – washer, dryer, range, oven, refrigerator, as well as any other special equipment you have specified.

37. FINISH ELECTRICAL
Here is where electrician comes back to install switches, outlets, light fixtures, ceiling fans, door bells, etc. He will also hook up appliances, furnace, air conditioner, doorbell, and so forth.

38. FINISH PLUMBING
Plumber will install sinks, lavatories, toilets, and all faucets.

39. FINISH HVAC & FINAL HEAT
Your heating sub will install registers and get furnace and air conditioning running properly.

40. SHOWER DOORS AND MIRRORS
Install shower doors. Hang mirrors.

41. CARPET
Now it’s starting to feel like home!

42. HARDWARE AND SCREENS
Typically, this is door, window, and closet hardware. Window screens.

43. DRYWALL REPAIRS
You may need to get drywall subcontractor back out to patch some dings caused by other subs’ work. This is normal.

44. CLEAN UP
This is final interior clean up.

45. FINAL PAINT
Touching up drywall repairs and so forth.

46. FINAL WOOD FLOOR FINISH
This should be your last inside job before moving in.

47. RETAINING WALLS
These outside home building jobs can be going on while work proceeds inside.

48. WALKS, DRIVES, AND PATIOS
You should wait until drywall has been delivered, because drywall trucks are VERY heavy, and could damage your flat work

49. SEPTIC TANK AND DRAIN FIELD

Same as above on timing with regard to drywall delivery. Septic tank holds waste and allows microbic action on solids. Drain field is where effluent leaches into soil.

50. FINISH GRADING AND LANDSCAPING
Final finished grades are established to ensure proper drainage away from home, and to prepare yard for landscaping. Trees, shrubs, grass, etc. are installed.

This entry was posted in Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning and tagged base mould, landscaping, insulation, columns, HVAC, backfill, septic systems, electrical, retaining walls, fireplace on March 7, 2023 by admin.

How to Insulate My Pole Barn Roof

How to Insulate My Pole Barn Roof

Reader JEREMY in GREENBRIER writes:

“Looking at building a 50x60x15 pole barn 20 miles north of Nashville, TN. I’m needing recommendations for the best way to insulate. I’m using scissor trusses with no ceiling and I’m planning metal panels on the inside walls. I’m thinking 2×4 girts on the outside of the poles and 2×6 bookshelf girts. Tyvek wrapped and Rockwool between bookshelf girts. I’m not sure how to insulate the ceiling or roof. I will be conditioning the space and keeping it between 78-55 degrees year round. Thanks.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru says:

Our oldest daughter lives just south of you!

While I realize you have this building pretty well planned out, I will throw out some ideas. Hopefully they will allow you to keep more of your hard earned dollars in your wallet.

With a 50′ span, you might want to consider increasing wall height, rather than using scissor trusses. Chances are good it will be less costly and will provide full height utilization from wall-to-wall.

Rather than using a combination wall girt, if you just do 2×8 bookshelf girts it will take less materials and time to install.

Robertson County is in Climate Zone 4A, where 2021 International Energy Conservation Code (IECC) requires R60 in roofs and R30 in walls. You can meet wall requirements with 7-1/4″ Rockwool (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/03/roxul-insulation/) (batts . If you are trying to insulate the plane of your roof, you will be pretty much limited to spray foam insulation. You could do 2″ of closed cell insulation applied to the underside of roof steel plus 13″ of open cell or 3 & 11, etc. Any of these will become expensive design solutions. You also will end up conditioning a tremendous amount of area above truss bottom chords.

How I would do it….

Order 16″ raised heel trusses. Roof steel with an Integral Condensation Control (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/) factory applied. Vent soffits and ridge in correct ratios (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/03/adequate-eave-ridge-ventilation/). Install a ceiling, blow in R-60 of granulated Rockwool. This overall combination will be far less expensive than spray foam and certainly far less expensive to climate control.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Trusses, Budget and tagged spray foam insulation, closed cell insulation, raised heel trusses, roof truss bottom chords, International Energy Conservation Code, rock wool batts, Integrated condensation Control, insulation on February 16, 2023 by admin.

Vinyl Backed Insulation, Post Brackets, and Rebar Hairpins

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about the availability of a tool for installation of vinyl backed insulation, pouring concrete prior to use of brackets and the limitations of “dry set” brackets, as well as setting vapor barrier once rebar hairpins have been installed.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Is there a tool out there that I can clip on the end of my vinyl back installation to pull it tight other than my hands. If so what would that tool be called and where can I buy it. I was hoping that there would be some type of alligator vice grips or something like that that we can attach and pull. MARK in OKLAHOMA

DEAR MARK: You are now finding one of many “joys” of using vinyl backed metal building insulation. You will want to read my personal metal building insulation story: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/11/metal-building-insulation-in-pole-buildings-part-i/ and https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/11/metal-building-insulation/
In answer to your question – there is not such a commercially available product.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I plan to build a workshop with a concrete floor. a 24×40 x10ft building. Seems like it would be easier to just poor the concrete slab first and then just drill into the concrete and bolt the post brackets in place,,, rather than dig a bunch of holes and pour concrete piers for the post with wet set brackets…what are the advantages of setting all the posts first, then pouring a concrete floor later? Are there any disadvantages to bolting brackets to the concrete rather than using a wet set bracket? Ii am in a high wind area, (120 mph) and seismic area ‘e”. RON in HILO

DEAR RON: Problem #1 is dry set (bolted) brackets are not rated for moment (bending) forces, unlike wet set brackets. This becomes problematic, especially in areas of high wind.

Problem #2 – you can’t just pour a flat slab on grade, you would have to thicken slab edges to probably 18″

With wet set brackets, you can monolithic pour a slab with deeper excavation points at bracket locations, however I typically recommend waiting to pour slabs until after a roof is on to avoid heavy objects from falling and chipping your freshly poured concrete.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How do I install the concrete vapor barrier after the rebar hairpins in the columns have been placed?

Rebar Hairpins

Thanks! REID in WILLISTON

DEAR REID: Vapor barrier will go under rebar hairpins, so either block up one hairpin end or have someone lift it for you (this will cause other end of hairpin to raise) – slide vapor barrier under hairpin and up around sides of column. Seal vapor barrier to column and you are all good.

This entry was posted in Pole Building How To Guides, Ventilation, Concrete, tools, Insulation, Columns, Pole Barn Questions, Constructing a Pole Building and tagged drill set brackets, vinyl backed insulation, insulation, vapor barrier, wet set brackets, rebar hairpins, dry set brackets on December 28, 2022 by admin.

Ceiling Insulation, Truss Spacing, and Custom Multi-use Barn

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about best way to insulate a vaulted ceiling, truss spacing, and the possibility of adding a small living quarter to a horse barn.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: With a vaulted ceiling, how do you insulate it if you plan to spray the tin roof with closed cell foam. Was planning on bat insulation on the lower cords of the trusses if needed. what about venting if you spray foam the tin roof? CHRIS in DORCHESTER

DEAR CHRIS: Saline County is located in Climate Zone 5A. As such conditioned buildings require R 60 attic insulation.

You can either:

Have a conditioned attic space – using closed cell spray foam at least two inches thick against underside of roof deck, then adding open cell spray foam or unfaced rock wool batts to get to required R value. This assembly will not be ventilated.

An unconditioned attic. If you have no other method of condensation control, then again place two inches of closed cell spray foam directly to roof steel interior. Vent eaves and ridge, then blow in R 60 of fiberglass across attic. Insulation baffles will need to be placed at eaves to allow for at least an inch of unobstructed air flow above blown in insulation.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello Mike, I have a question regarding a post frame building I would like to build. the size is 40′ x 32′ x 16′ with 6/12 roof pitch. I am planning to use trusses at 2′ foot centers. my question is regarding using 3 tab composition shingles for my roof covering (I have a HOA that will not allow metal roofs), what special considerations might I need to take with respect to where the trusses attach to the top of the post frame wall? the posts will be at 8′ centers and standard girts installed. I was thinking that perhaps increasing the dimensions of the top girt would be necessary. I would appreciate your thoughts on my intentions. I have enjoyed your YouTube videos as well. Sincerely MARK in CODY

DEAR MARK: Thank you for your kind words about our YouTube videos. https://www.youtube.com/user/HansenBuildings
Personally, I would place double trusses to bear directly upon columns spaced every 10 to 12 feet with purlins on edge, joist hung between truss top chords. This design results in fewest number of holes needing to be dug, as well as fewest pieces of materials to have to install. It also allows for wider door openings.

Doing as you propose, truss carriers (headers between columns to support trusses) would need to be adequately sized by your building’s engineer in order to carry imposed loads without failure or undue deflection.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Do you all have barns with living quarters? Not looking for a barndominium, per se, but a restroom with a shower and a living room in addition to 4 stalls and a tack room. we plan on staying there at first while we build the main house on the property, then use for guests or storage. SARAH in SARASOTA

DEAR SARAH: We have provided a plethora of barns with living quarters and every building we provide is custom designed to best meet our client’s wants and needs.

Typically, you should expect to have to two-hour fire separate barn from living area, meaning you cannot go directly from one occupancy to another without going outside in order to do so. For this reason, many of our clients have opted to have a roof only breezeway area between these dissimilar occupancies.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Professional Engineer, Constructing a Pole Building, Columns, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Planning, Barndominium, Trusses, Ventilation, Insulation and tagged horse barn, truss carriers, truss spacing, living quarters, insulation, tack room, spray foam, Ventilation on December 14, 2022 by admin.

Blown-In Insulation, Uplift Plates, and Truss Spacing

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about better blown-in insulation on 3/12 pitch ceiling, a reader with uplift issues and how to prevent them, and some concerns about truss spacing at 8′ oc.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, I have a 30×48 pole barn with scissor trusses 6/12 outer pitch 3/12 inside pitch. It has metal roof with dripstop. Trusses are 4’ on center and I was going to place metal on inside ceiling 3/12 pitch then place blown in insulation on top of that. Would it be best to use fiberglass blown in insulation instead of cellulose? I will be sure to place baffles on eaves for proper ventilation. Do I need any vapor barrier between the metal and insulation seeing as I have dripstop on roof metal? Thank You! DON

DEAR DON: Yes, use blown fiberglass rather than cellulose. Cellulose has fire retardant chemicals in it, when combined with excess moisture, it will prematurely decay steel liner panels (and cellulose is much heavier than fiberglass). Unless you are located where there are over 8000 annual heating degree days, you should not have a ceiling vapor barrier.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: The wind lifted my pole barn up about a foot on one end last spring and hasn’t settled back down. Wondering how to get it back down to earth? STEVE

DEAR STEVE: Your building has sadly become an experiment to show what happens when adequate uplift provisions have not been made during construction. Hopefully your building has been insured for replacement costs – so you can have this work hired out.

In order to successfully get a ‘return to earth’ your building should be disassembled back to at least a point where no column uplift is detectable – including removing uplifted columns from ground.

Re-dig all offending post holes.

Add an uplift plate on on side of each column at bottom. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/12/uplift-plate/
Stand columns in holes, so bottom of column “floats” roughly 8″ from bottom of hole. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/04/floating-poles/
Pour bottom 18″ or more of each hole with readi-mix concrete.

Re-frame building, replacing any damaged lumber or trusses.

Before putting steel panels back on building, confirm no slots have been created in panels due to tearing around screw shanks when building lifted. Replace any damaged panels.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We are having a 30 x 50 barn built, and our builder just put up the trusses. It is a stick frame barn on a slab and the trusses are spaced 8′ apart. The concern is that there are not enough trusses. It looks like a “pole barn” but is on a traditional slab identical to our house and the “poles” are not buried. Trying to find information on truss spacing has been difficult. Both dad and uncle think it is not enough and have traditional construction backgrounds. Please help. ASHLEY in ANDERSON

DEAR ASHLEY: Provided your building’s trusses have been engineered to adequately support loads when spaced every eight feet, there is nothing wrong with them. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/06/pole-barn-truss-spacing/
What is wrong is it appears this building is being constructed without site specific engineer sealed structural plans. Chances are better than most you will have some future challenges due to this. Roof purlins should be attached to trusses using Simpson or USP brand joist hangers. Truss bottom chord bracing is missing and truss heels should be attached to walls with an uplift connector adequate to resist your roof flying away during a high wind event.

This entry was posted in Trusses, Ventilation, Footings, Insulation, Rebuilding Structures, Pole Barn Questions, Building Styles and Designs, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure and tagged insulation, blown in fiberglass insulation, Uplift, pole barn truss spacing, Uplift Plates, truss spacing on November 23, 2022 by admin.

A Baker’s Dozen Post Frame Home Myths Part III

A Baker’s Dozen Post-Frame Home Myths (#8 – #13)

MYTH #8. THERE ARE NO FOOTERS IN POST FRAMES

Without having footers to protect concrete slabs on grade from freezing, there is a potential your concrete slab can move or heave around edges in cold weather. In turn, this can shift interior walls, resulting in damage to drywall finishes and trim.

If you do go with post-frame construction, you will have to add footers to stay in IRC (International Residential Code) compliance. This will add cost back into your home’s total price.

Fully-engineered post frame homes are 100% Building Code Compliant and most typically have properly pressure preservative treated columns embedded in ground with both concrete footings and bottom collars. Alternatively your home can be mounted to steel brackets set in concrete piers.

Either of these are designed to extend to or below frost lines or are frost protected by use of insulation. Footers themselves do not protect a concrete slab from freezing and heaving, using rigid insulation around slab perimeters is required for either stick frame or post frame in Climate Zones 3 and greater). With fully engineered post-frame, there is no need to incorporate thickened slab edges or continuous concrete footings and foundations.

MYTH #9. POST-FRAMES WILL HAVE LARGER SPANS BETWEEN ROOF TRUSSES

This is an issue because they’ll have to be filled in before you can hang drywall. If you hang drywall “as is,” it will all sag over time, causing structural damage (and a pain in your wallet). Adding this extra framing afterwards will add to total price tag again.

While some post-frame homes do have trusses spaced every two feet, most cost effectively your fully engineered post-frame home will have double trusses every 10 to 12 feet. If you desire to insulate at ceiling lines, ceiling joists are placed every two feet to adequately support drywall. This combination of double trusses and ceiling joists will still be less expensive than conventional stick framing’s trusses every two feet with structural headers required in walls. By widely spacing trusses, it allows for greater flexibility in locating doors and windows in exterior walls.

MYTH #10. POST-FRAME HOME TRUSSES HAVE VERY LIMITED SPANS

Prefabricated metal-plate connected wood trusses can easily span 80 to 100 feet without need for interior columns. Very rarely will spans greater than these ever be needed for a post-frame home.

IRC Section 802.10.2.1 further limits truss spans for stick-frame construction to a maximum of 36 feet and building lengths to 60 feet (measured perpendicular to truss span). Fully engineered post-frame homes do not have these limitations.

MYTH #11. EXTRA FRAMING BETWEEN POSTS WILL BE NEEDED

Comment from a stick frame builder: as opposed to traditional wall building, with post-frame you’ll have to build walls between posts. This is an added cost to an already built post-frame building shell.

Chances are this builder has never built (or probably seen) a fully engineered post frame building with bookshelf girts every two feet. All exterior wall framing is taken care of at initial installation, you get a deeper insulation cavity and a better surface to drywall.

MYTH #12. INSULATION COSTS ARE HIGHER

Your post-frame home will require more wall insulation because post-frame walls are thicker than typical two-by-four construction. Therefore, insulation cost will be higher to fill this cavity.

Proper insulation systems are an investment, not a cost. Would you really want an energy bill based off of R-13 insulation in a two-by-four exterior wall? Engineered post-frame construction allows for thicker insulation cavities – reducing your energy costs for your home’s lifespan.

MYTH #13. POST-FRAME CONSTRUCTION IS TYPICALLY NOT USED WITH BASEMENTS.

Post frame construction is not very conducive when building on a basement, as basement walls will be made from poured concrete. Trying to adapt post-frame construction to a basement will end up with higher costs than traditional home building techniques. Bottom line: If you want a home with a basement, post frame construction is not your best choice.

Fully engineered post-frame homes can easily be engineered to attach to a concrete basement foundation, ICFs or even incorporated into a Permanent Wood Foundation, at similar or lower costs than stick frame.

This entry was posted in Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Structure, Trusses, Uncategorized and tagged ICF's, Post-Frame, stick built, Ic, insulation, concrete slabs, International Code, bookshelf girts, post frame construction, concrete footings, basement foundation, drywall on November 22, 2022 by admin.

Corner Trim, Metal Roof Install Issue, and Insulation Solutions

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about what trim to use on building corners, an issue of installing metal to roof that is extremely out of square, and best options to insulate a building.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Good afternoon! Looking to see what trim to use on the corners? https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/10/horizon-steel-siding/ Sincerely, KYLEIGH

DEAR KYLEIGH: Order standard Corner Trims and place pre-formed foam Outside Closure strips between horizontal steel siding and trims.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How much more difficult would it be to put the metal roof on if you can’t square the roof trusses. Because the posts were not cemented in properly. We are 8′ out of square on a 24’x50′. Would it be possible to square being that far out? TOM in BLOOMSBURG

DEAR TOM: I want my roof planes to be square within 1/8th inch before attempting to run steel. At 8′ out of square, I would have pulled out all offending posts and started over again. What you have will be impossible to properly roof and would require cutting every sheet of steel at eaves to even get a straight overhang line.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Just finished 40x60x16 pole barn and am looking to insulate. Building wrap was installed on exterior walls and roof has double bubble. Wondering how to manage moisture inside the building. Slab is insulated under as well as a vapor barrier. Interior walls and ceiling will be finished with steel liner panel. I’d like to spray foam entire building with open cell spray foam walls and roof deck. Would I need to install a vapor barrier between foam and steel liner panels? Building has attic trusses and the room will also be conditioned separately from garage space. Thanks KYLE in COXSACKIE

DEAR KYLE: I would not spray foam to building wrap, as it causes more problems than it solves. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/04/spray-foam-insulation-3/
For walls, I would use unfaced rock wool batts, with a well-sealed interior vapor barrier. You do not need a vapor barrier between ceiling liner panels and attic spray foam. Personally, I would blow in fiberglass above ceiling liner panels and ventilate the dead attic space.

It might be necessary to mechanically dehumidify your building.

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Building Interior, Insulation, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Building Siding and tagged Ventilation, square roof, corner trims, unfaced rock wool batts, metal trims, insulation, install roof steel, vapor barrier on November 16, 2022 by admin.

Insulate a Building, Truss Carrier Bolts, and Code Standards

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about the proper way to insulate the walls of a metal building, advice on bolting truss carriers, and advice about, “building code standards for the horizontal infill framing” on a post frame building.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I would like to insulate the interior walls of a metal building so they could be finished with plywood or drywall so I could use the building as a cabin. The ceiling is insulated with fiberglass, but the walls are not. What is the proper way to insulate/frame the interior walls? BRIAN in COLUMBIA

DEAR BRIAN: The proper way would have been to have had your walls framed using commercial bookshelf wall girts https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/09/11-reasons-post-frame-commercial-girted-walls-are-best-for-drywall/.
You can still do this – using 2×4 #2 girts bookshelf style between the columns (hold girts flush to inside of columns).

I would recommend using rock wool batts, as they are unaffected by moisture https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/03/roxul-insulation/, with a well-sealed 6mil clear visqueen vapor barrier on the inside.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am building a pole shed with 12′ side walls I have already poured a cement slab 10’x42′ next to the back wall I have installed [5] 6×6 poles with cement pads underneath them I am going to be measuring today for where to bolt on a truss carrier, do I measure 12′ up from the cement slab to mark where the truss carrier goes? TODD in ELK MOUND

DEAR TODD: Height of your truss carrier should be delineated on your engineer sealed, site specific, structural building plans. Typically, post frame buildings are measured by eave height, not ceiling height. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/03/eave_height/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What are the building code standards for the horizontal infill framing between the posts of a post frame buildings, in terms of timber size, horizontal/vertical on center distance. I have seen 2x4s and 2x6s used, usually 24″ o/c vertically. Horizontally, how far can they span horizontally? JOHN in BANDERA

DEAR JOHN: Code requirement is wall girts must meet with minimum jurisdictional design criteria for wind speed and exposure (for reading on Exposure see https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2022/06/wind-exposure-and-confusion-part-iii/).
Deflection must be within limits specified in IBC Table 1604.3.

Externally mounted wall girts rarely meet deflection criteria https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/03/girts/
In most instances, bookshelf wall girts are a best structural design solution: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/09/commercial-girts-what-are-they/
Ultimately, building from a fully engineered set of site specific plans will ensure your wall girts are properly designed to resist imposed loads.

This entry was posted in Building Department, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Planning, Trusses, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Homes, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design and tagged truss bolts, Girts sizing, code standards, insulation, commercial girts, engineer sealed plans, girt spacing, truss carrier on November 9, 2022 by admin.

Spray Foam, Siding Strength, and What is DIY?

Today, the Pole Barn Guru answers questions about closed cell spray foam, which building would be stronger if one was wrapped in steel siding and the other with wood, and what aspects of a DIY project are “do it yourself”?

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Thanks for taking the time to respond… hope this finds you doing well… I’m planning on using closed cell foam… so if I’m using closed cell I don’t have to use house wrap? I’m new to all this… so any advice you could give me would be greatly appreciated… RICKY in INDIANA

DEAR RICKY: Closed cell spray foam is best applied directly to wall and/or roof steel. Please read more here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/04/spray-foam-insulation-3/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hey bud I wanted to pick your brain for a second. If a person built 2 steel truss pole barns the exact same… the only difference, one would be wrapped in metal, and the other would be wrapped in wood siding… which one would be stronger? The one with wood siding would be using 1×8 hemlock boards if that makes any difference. Thanks. RICKY in KINGSPORT

DEAR RICKY: It would depend upon spacing of wall girts and how each was fastened, as well as number of openings in walls. Done correctly, steel siding would be a stiffer end result.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have seen some discussion on “price per sq. ft. to build” a barndominium you said DIY was about $85 I believe correct? When you say DIY, are you referring to like self contracting the house or self contracting and actually doing plumbing, electrical, flooring, shower install labor, etc.? LANCE in YOUNGSVILLE

DEAR LANCE: Fully engineered post frame, modest tastes, totally DIY, move in ready, budget roughly $70-80 per sft of floor space for living areas, $35 for all others. Does not include land, site prep, utilities, permits.

If you hire everything turnkey then take above numbers x2 to 3 (depends upon market). Acting as your own General Contractor and subbing everything out will put you roughly halfway between.

You will want to read #4 here before going down a “turnkey” road: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2021/02/a-shortlist-for-smooth-barndominium-sailing/

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Heating, Ventilation, Alternate Siding, Budget, Pole Barn Questions, Professional Engineer and tagged price per square foot, house wrap, insulation, DIY, spray foam, siding materials, shear strength, Do It Yourself Pole Barn on November 2, 2022 by admin.

Radiant Barrier, In-Ground Use Poles, and Sliding Door Replacement

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about potential moisture issue when adding insulation to walls with a radiant barrier, advice about in-ground use poles, and replacing old sliding doors.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a pole barn on a concrete slab with footers. My 6×6 are anchored down and have a 2×6 plate down the perimeter of my living area. Foam under all the wood. I have radiant barrier on the outside of the walls 2×4 are over it then metal, so I have a air gap between the metal and radiant barrier. I’m adding R19 insulation it will touch the radiant barrier. And then drywall over the insulation. So you think Moisture will form under my drywall. I will have some air flow in my attic on top of my wall insulation it can breathe some.

Thank you. SONNY in MARYVILLE

DEAR SONNY: Your radiant barrier acts as a vapor barrier. In order to prevent moisture from being trapped within your wall cavity you will want to use unfaced batts. I would recommend rock wool, rather than fiberglass or cellulose, as it is unaffected by moisture. Do not add an internal vapor barrier or retarder (such as clear poly).

Having the radiant barrier forces your walls to dry to inside. If you did not place a well-sealed vapor barrier underneath your slab, you should seal it to minimize moisture coming up through your concrete. Depending upon how you have insulated and vented your attic space, you may need to add mechanical dehumidification to prevent mold growth.

You also should not have air flow from your wall into your roof, consider adding fire blocking in order to meet Code requirements https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2022/08/fireblocking-and-firestops/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Morning guru sir. I have been neck deep trying to plan our building. We are relocating to eastern Tennessee. A lot of people are saying to never put wood poles in the ground. What are your thoughts on this and how should I plan the foundation part of my build? It is a 2600 square foot single level with an almost as large garage. Thanks STEPHEN in CARVER

DEAR STEPHEN: I would have absolutely no qualms about using properly pressure preservative treated (UC-4B rated) columns in ground. Personally, my lovely bride and I live in an 8000 square foot finished, million dollar post frame shouse (shop/house) with embedded columns. I have also built (yes, me) two post frame buildings in Eastern Tennessee – one for my eldest son in Maryville (read about it here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/05/building-design-2/), the other in Happy Valley (an entire series of articles on this particular build begins here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/construction-time-2/). Both of these buildings used embedded columns and I predict these buildings will be standing long after my eventual demise (and will probably outlive my grandchildren and their grandchildren).

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a pole barn and need the outside sliding doors replaced. There are two doors and they’re each 10′ high, 8′ wide, and 1-2/3″ thick. Do you do this kind of work? ANDY in MIAMISBURG

DEAR ANDY: Thank you for reaching out to us. We are not contractors in any state and only provide materials for sliding doors along with our complete building kits. We would suggest you post this on your nearly Craigslist, under “gigs”.

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Columns, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Heating, Constructing a Pole Building, Sliding Doors, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure and tagged pressure treated posts, pole barn sliding doors, sliding door, moisture barrier, radiant barrier, in-ground use poles, insulation on September 20, 2022 by admin.

Can No Longer Afford Spray Foam for a PEMB

Can no Longer Afford Spray Foam for a PEMB

Loyal reader CINDY in TYLER writes:

“I had a steel building (20×18) built with steel frame and metal exterior. This is going to be my house. It will have a loft that is half the size of the building. Originally the builder talked me into spray foam and that’s what Ii planned to do. He said I had to use wood to frame inside the metal walls first, then run electrical and plumbing before the spray foam. That was a couple of years ago. Now that inflation has caused prices to soar, I am simply not able to afford the spray foam. My main concern is the condensation/moisture issue. i am doing the rest of the work by myself. Since I don’t have any help it’s not going to be feasible to remove wall panels to install house wrap or insulation. So I wanted to get your expert advice on how to handle this. Specifically I have a plan to run by you. So the idea is instead of building my framing inside the metal frame, move to the inside of the metal, attach wood frame to the inside edge of the metal frame. Insulate the inside of the wood frame and add a moisture barrier to the inside of the wood frame before drywall. I will lose 3.5″ of space all around the inside but i think that will take care of any moisture issues. Please tell me what you think about this plan and make any appropriate suggestions even if you don’t post this on your blog. Also I wanted to thank you for the wealth of knowledge you have readily available on your site. Can’t tell you how much help you have been.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru responds:

Thank you for your kind words, they are greatly appreciated.

Normally (in your climate zone of 2A) I would be recommending closed cell spray foam as insulator of choice – due to a combination of heat and humidity. Your builder headed you in a correct direction.

Before we get into how to frame your interior, we need to address what is going to happen with your roof. With steel installed directly over framing (whether wood, or in your case steel), if there is no well-sealed thermal break, you are going to experience condensation issues. You are going to have to find a way to spring for two inches of closed cell spray foam sprayed directly to the underside of your roof steel. Steel frame and steel purlins should also be sprayed. If not, you are going to have condensation on them – steel is a wonderful conductor of heat and cold.

Now – on to your question at hand. For your walls, it appears most folks do exactly as you propose and build a 2×4 wood stud wall inside of their PEMB’s (pre-engineered metal building) steel wall girts. You will want to completely fill your wall cavity with insulation – I would recommend rock wool, as it is not affected by moisture (here is information on one particular product https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/03/roxul-insulation/). You want to make sure your interior vapor barrier is extremely well sealed, including outlets.

If you do not have a well-sealed vapor barrier under your slab on grade, please seal your concrete now. Your HVAC system should be designed to mechanically dehumidify, else condensation is going to haunt you forever.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Roofing Materials, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Building Interior and tagged closed cell spray foam, rock wool, PEMB, steel purlins, insulation, vapor barrier, condensation, spray foam, thermal break on August 25, 2022 by admin.

Can I Turn an Existing Pole Barn into a Barndominium

Can I Turn an Existing Pole Barn into a Barndominium?

Reader MICHELLE in GALLATIN writes:

“Hi Mike, my name is Michelle and I live in Nashville Tennessee. I am under contract on an existing pole barn (30′ x 60′) that I am going to turn into a Barndominium. (Picture attached) Today we had the structural engineer come out because the city tells me I will need a letter from him saying the building is up to codes before they will issue a building permit. The structural engineer is not familiar with Barndominiums and has some questions about the roof sleepers. Everything else checks out OK. Is there any possibility he could call you to pick your brain on this? I am willing to pay you for your time on the phone call. Just so you know I am looking to do the spray foam on the ceiling and walls as per all the discussions I read on the barndominium Facebook page. Please feel free to call me if you’d rather talk this through more on the phone with me before the structural engineer calls you. If you decide you have the time to take his call.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru says: Because Michelle is so nice, here are my insights, addressed by photo:

Wood entry door in wood jambs should be replaced with an insulated, factory painted, steel door with factory painted steel jambs

Reflective Radiant Barriers (RRB) are only effective at controlling condensation when seams are thoroughly taped together.

Roof trusses are unlikely to have been designed to support a ceiling load – requiring further analysis. Provided they are either adequate, or can be repaired to carry a ceiling load, heels are not deep enough to provide full depth of insulation from wall-to-wall. Design solutions could include (a) remove reflective radiant barrier from roof and use closed cell spray foam insulation to underside of roof deck, or (b) use closed cell spray foam closest to eaves on top of ceiling with blown fiberglass to R-60 in balance of attic area. Spray foam needs to be installed to allow for at least one inch of clear airflow above. Diagonal braces at corners are inadequate to properly transfer shear loads. It is possible to replace screws at top and bottom of each roof and wall panel with 1-1/2″ #12 diaphragm screws, with one each side of every high rib. This should get you to 80-90 pounds per lineal foot of shear resistance.

Eave lights should be removed as they will not transfer shear loads and will be covered with insulation and interior finish materials. Truss carriers (and their connections) should be checked for adequacy to carry concentrated loads from intermediate trusses. As a carrier is on the inside face of columns, an interior set of wall girts will need to be added to support finishes.

Sliding doors will need to be replaced either with solid walls, or an appropriate door or window(s). I would want to see an X brace between the end truss and the next truss at centerline connected to each chord with a Simpson LSTA12 or similar.

Connections between roof purlins and trusses are probably inadequate, particularly at endwalls.

Truss bottom chords should be braced laterally no less than 10′ on center (and probably more like every 6-7′). Ceiling joists would fulfill this requirement.

Remove any current concrete slabs – re-pour four inches thick over no less than four inches of compacted gravel, a 6mil minimum well-sealed vapor barrier and ideally R-10 EPS insulation boards.

If a dead attic space will be created, provide venting at eaves and ridge

Roof steel is showing signs of aging, I would recommend replacing – remove RRB and order roof steel with an Integral Condensation Control factory applied, unless roof assembly is to be insulated only with spray foam insulation.

Perimeter of slab should be insulated with R-10 EPS boards down two feet, then outwards two feet

My recommendation – I would continue to use this building strictly as a barn and erect a new, fully engineered and Code conforming post frame home elsewhere on this property. Bringing this building up to meet Code requirements as a dwelling will cost more in time and labor than building is worth. https://hansenpolebuildings.com/2022/01/why-your-new-barndominium-should-be-post-frame/

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Planning, Post Frame Home, Pole Barn Structure, Barndominium, Ventilation, Budget, Insulation and tagged barndominium, eave lights, blown in fiberglass insulation, truss carriers, closed cell spray foam insulation, insulation, ceiling load, fiberglass, shear loads, structural engineer, Reflective Radiant Barriers, Simpson LSTA 12 on August 23, 2022 by admin.

Polycarbonate Frame, Concrete Thickness, and Insulation

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about the use of a hard-sided (polycarbonate) frame, how thick a concrete pads has to be to house an RV, and insulation options for a vacation home.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can a pole structure be built as a hard-sided (polycarbonate) frame 20 feet wide, without using trusses or central support poles, and instead using steel rod ties wall to wall/post to post, to keep the structure from spreading? Maximum snow load approximately 2 feet of wet snow. I need a greenhouse (summer) that has no central poles but also no trusses, to avoid shading. ANDREW in THREE HILLS

DEAR ANDREW: Rather than trying to reinvent a wheel, it would probably behoove you to look into an actual polycarbonate greenhouse such as these https://www.growspan.com/ad-growspan-greenhouse-structures-1/?gclid=CjwKCAjwrNmWBhA4EiwAHbjEQADPM4ifhujox0twKMYlU_xupk-R3NwGmFk0eBVXQMIn75wolNx08RoCCpkQAvD_BwE. This would have to be far more efficient and effective than even engineering costs of attempting to design using post frame. Best of success to you with your project.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How thick of a concrete pad do I need to park a 16,000 pound RV on under my pole barn that is 16 feet wide by 26 feet long? JOSEPH in BLUE RIDGE

DEAR JOSEPH: More important than concrete thickness will be what you have done to prepare your site. Properly prepared and well compacted, it is possible a four inch thick slab could do everything you need it to be. It might behoove you to thicken slab to five or more inches in zones of wheel travel and add 1/2″ rebar in these areas (less than five inches thick does not provide adequate concrete coverage for rebar to be effective).

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Using structure as a vacation home. Concrete floors. Which kind of options for insulation? Walls and ceiling – open to spray on ceiling and keeping open – but would do a ceiling if batt was the option r value thought? MARK in MENTONE

DEAR MARK: DeKalb county is in Climate Zone 3A. Here are my recommendations (all based upon 2021 IECC):

Slab – perimeter 2′ down with R-10 rigid insulation

Walls – Weather Resistant Barrier between framing and siding; bookshelf wall girts; R-20 or greater rock wool batts (unfaced); no interior vapor barrier

Roof – 18″ raised heel trusses; roof steel with an Integral Condensation Control factory applied; vent eaves and ridge; blow in R-49 fiberglass on top of a ceiling.

This entry was posted in Columns, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Homes, Constructing a Pole Building, RV Storage, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Building Grow House, Shouse, Ventilation, Concrete, Building Interior and tagged polycarbonate, RV Storage, rebar, insulation, greenhouse, concrete thickness on August 17, 2022 by admin.

Insulation and Ventilation, Straw Bales, and Double Bubble

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about using cardboard and heavy plastic to vent and insulate a pole building, use of straw bales an insulator, and best way to ventilate and reduce roof noise.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: On my 42×63 2 story pole building (heated first floor) I have trusses 9’ o.c. standard roof purloins 2’ o.c. I was wondering if I could use cardboard up against steel roofing for venting air flow of the humps in the steel roof panels (standard steel w/ 1” humps not standing seam ) then install heavy plastic on bottom of purlins and fill cavity w/ cellulose blown insulation. Would this work correctly for ventilation of steel and insulate correctly. Combination of being cheap/frugal and I have free heavy cardboard from washers/dryers/refrigerators to fit between purlins. Greatly appreciate your opinions. Thank you. BEN in EDEN

DEAR BEN: Code requires a one inch minimum of airflow across your entire roof surface above batt insulation. Air flowing only at steel ribs would be inadequate to meet requirements. Assuming you have 2×6 roof purlins, 5-1/2 inches of blown cellulose would give you roughly R-19.25. You would be better served by using 2-1/2 to 3 inches (R-17.5 to R-21) of closed cell spray foam applied directly to underside of your roof steel, as it does not have to be vented above.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi, I read your post on bale infill with a pole building (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/04/straw-bale-homes/). When I called to get more info, the rep told me that Hansen strongly advises against it, but he also said he hadn’t heard about that idea. Is there someone there that has worked with a client who has used straw bale walls to infill between the posts? KEVIN in RENO

DEAR KEVIN: Your call happened to be routed to one of our newer Building Designers. Post frame construction is highly complex, with a literal unlimited number of possibilities, this being one your designer was unfamiliar with.

In general straw bale homes seem to have been a passing fad, however if you strongly feel this is your best option, please call again and ask to speak with Rachel – our most senior Building Designer, and she can assist you better.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am looking for a underlayment for my pole barn. I have metal roofing with horse stables below. There are no side walls to my pole barn. It’s all about ventilation for the animals here in NC. It’s supposed to add a few degrees in R value. It also helps deaden the sound of rain. Everyone talks about double bubble but this is supposed to be different. Thank you, FRANCES in TRYON

DEAR FRANCES: Without having to pull off your building’s roof steel, install some fashion of condensation control then reinstall it – there is only one practical solution – two inches of closed cell spray foam applied directly to underside of your steel roofing. This would provide an R-14 insulation value. It is unlikely to have an effect on reduction of noise from rain, as it is not good at blocking sound waves. “Double bubble” offers little to no R-value and would require being installed between framing and roof steel.

This entry was posted in Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Planning, Ventilation, Building Interior, Insulation, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design and tagged underlayment, straw bale insulation, insulation, spray foam, Ventilation, straw bale pole buildngs, double bubble on July 20, 2022 by admin.

Basic Stats for Post Frame Home Floor Plans

Basic Stats for Post Frame Home Floor Plans

If there is a single commonality among us humans it is this – we are dimensionally challenged. This situation is even more so crucial when it comes to planning your new post frame home.

Here are a few tips to help you out:

EAVE HEIGHT

Measure from the pressure treated splash plank bottom, to intersection roofing underside at sidewall columns. This is not to be confused with ceiling height (also known as interior clear height).

HOW TO GET AN EIGHT FOOT FINISHED CEILING

For discussion’s sake (and as most post frame homes are concrete slab on grade), set a “zero point” at exterior grade (pressure treated splash plank bottom), slab top will be at +3.5 inches.

To create eight foot finished ceilings requires 8’ 1-1/8” (allows for 5/8” sheetrock on ceilings). This puts us at 8’ 4-5/8”.

Now allow for roof system thickness. With recessed (joist hung between trusses) roof purlins, 6-1/16″ for truss heel height with 2×6 top chord at 4/12 slope (provided you are using closed cell spray foam insulation between purlins). Minimum eave height would then be 8’ 10-11/16”. If using blown-in insulation truss heel height should be insulation R value divided by 3 plus 2″ to allow plenty of eave to ridge air flow above insulation.

What about two floors?

In order to be able to run utilities (e.g. plumbing and ductwork) through second floor supports, I highly recommend 4” x 2” prefabricated wood floor trusses. Generally truss depth will be about an inch for every clear span foot with a 12 inch minimum. Adding an arbitrarily chosen 16” deep floor truss and 8’ ceiling on second floor to example in previous paragraph puts eave height at 18’ 4-9/16”.

Stairs challenge even many experienced builders. Finished width must be no less than three feet (if planning allows, four feet is so much nicer), allow for drywall on each side when determining interior framing of stair opening width. In most jurisdictions maximum tread rise is 7-3/4” and minimum run is 10”. In above example, second floor top is 9’ 5-7/8”, so stairs would need at least 14 treads, taking up at least 140” (11’ 8”) horizontally. At stair top and bottom a space, in travel direction, equal to stair width must be provided. Headroom along every point of finished stairs must be no less than 6’8”.

ALLOW FOR WALL THICKNESS

Different providers measure their building footprints differently – some use wall girt outside at ‘call out’ while others use column outside and are three inches greater in width and length, this will need to be accounted for in room dimensions.

Exterior walls with bookshelf girts will be wall column thickness plus 1-1/2” for girts protruding outside of columns. With 3 or 4 ply 2×6 glulams or 6×6 columns allow 7-1/4” plus interior sheetrock thickness. Interior 2×4 walls with ½” sheetrock on each side end up 4-1/2” thick.

APPROPRIATELY SIZE SPACES

Below are popular post frame home rooms and their average square footage, in three categories (listed as small/medium/large):

Entry Foyer (65/89/138)
Kitchen (193/275/423)
Walk-In Kitchen Pantry (17/31/51)
Great Room (487/481/680)
Dining (148/196/281)
Living (256/319/393)
Family (311/355/503)
Recreation (216/384/540)
Entertainment/Media (140/192/280)
Master Bedroom (231/271/411)
Master Bathroom (115/144/210)
Secondary Bedrooms (130/139/178)
Other Bathrooms (93/146/313)
Laundry (67/87/145)
Utility/Mud Room (30/48/80)

Always allow adequate space for hallways (same minimum width rules apply as stairs).

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Planning, Shouse, Trusses, Columns, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Homes, Pole Building How To Guides, Post Frame Home and tagged ceiling height, insulation, wood floor trusses, splash plank, finished ceilings, bookshelf girts, eight foot finished ceiling, eave height, roof system thickness, glulams, truss heel height, roof purlins, exterior grade on June 7, 2022 by admin.

Pool Inside Pole Barn

Pool Inside Pole Barn

Reader DOUG in SNOHOMISH writes:

“I am just starting the process of having an inground swimming pool installed but due to weather and TREES in my area I have decided to build a Pole Barn to enclose the entire pool. I have done a lot of research on Pools and Pole Barns over the past 2+ years before coming to this conclusion. With advice from you and a ex-framer brother I feel that this is the right direction based on cost and complexity level.

What I am missing is real details and examples of individuals that have done similar projects. I could ask a million questions and spend days just chatting to you and/or other experts but it is unlikely I would be allowed. ☹ I have been searching the web for examples with more details on the different phases of the construction such as (1) Insulation, (2) Framing Walls, (3) Drywall, (4) Ceiling, (5) HVAC D, (6) Electricial, (7) ETC… but have not found much. Is there any good information on such projects being undertaken by experienced DIY individuals? (I know what you are thinking DIY = Don’t Indulge Yourself, but in this case I really am an Experienced DIY, having BUILT my own 4700sf home including either GC or hands on.

I am really considering using a Hansen Pole Barn Kit for the shell, but need to figure out how to ensure 60% humidity inside the building doesn’t rot it from the inside out. I know that HVAC Dehumidification will be very import, but so is how to seal the build walls from both the outside and inside, how to insulate the walls and ceiling (especially since we plan to have a flat ceiling thus an attic area where the Ceiling and Roof may need to both be insulated to avoid condensation, etc.

Any advice and especially great examples with details would be appreciated.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru says:

It has been several years since we provided one of our buildings over a pool. Here is an article I wrote as a result of it and a more recent inquiry: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/08/post-frame-indoor-swimming-pool-considerations/

Obviously your key to success is having a great HVAC/R system.

I do try to always err on caution’s side.

Adding to my referenced article above – I would add using all rock wool insulation as it is unaffected by moisture. Have a Weather Resistant Barrier between framing and wall steel (allows water vapor to exit the wall). Consider finishing the interior with cement board over a well-sealed vapor barrier, rather than “green board” moisture resistant drywall. Cement board is comparable in weight to drywall, so will not require adding to structural capacity beyond what sheetrock would take. Have a well ventilated attic (eave and ridge).

You will want to seal the interior – walls and ceiling, while having the exterior able to allow any moisture to escape.

Electrical is outside of my wheelhouse, otherwise you should be “good to go”.

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Building Interior, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning and tagged insulation, condensation, drywall, HVAC, electrical, indoor swimming pool on March 24, 2022 by admin.

Rock Solid, Living Quarters, and Better Get an RDP

Today the Pole Barn Guru responds to readers questions regarding assistance in designing that is “rock solid for generations to come” using the reader’s own sawn lumber, a questions about adding a living quarter to an insulated building, and advice in bracing a post frame building better suited for a registered design professional.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Greetings, been following you on Facebook for a while and thought I’d reach out. I’m looking to build a pole building in Oregon, roughly 60×120, pretty flexible on designing and I’m sawing my own wood for the project, except for the trusses. I don’t need stamped engineered plans, I will be building it myself as an ag building that doesn’t require permit. However, I do need help with the design to make sure that its rock solid for generations to come. Is this something that you could help me with? Thank you in advance and kind regards. OMER in EUGENE

DEAR OMER: Thank you for being a loyal follower. Although I certainly have the ability to do your structural design, I prefer not as it would place me in a position of liability as well as practicing engineering without a license. Even though you are building a permit exempt agricultural building, I would encourage you to build from engineered plans – as you say you want it to be “rock solid for generations to come”. Only having it fully engineered is going to give you this sort of assurance. Sawing your own wood is also problematic https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/01/free-home-milled-lumber/ unless you have an ability to dry it to under 19% moisture content, surface (plane) it and have it grade stamped by a certified lumber grader.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a insulated pole building (sides and roof). I am framing in a small living quarter within the building and want to know if there are issues if I insulate the living quarters and should I put a vapor barrier on the inside framing? There is a 2″ gap behind the 2×4 wall and the current insulation/vapor barrier. I could leave the 2″ gap all the way to the attic or I can seal that, but assume best if I let the air gap breath. Attached is a picture. Look forward to your advice and thank you in advance. JIM in DEER PARK

DEAR JIM: If you were to leave this two inch gap open on top, it does defeat any insulation value potentially gained from having wall Metal Building Insulation. If you can tightly seal this air space, it will actually help to increase your heating/cooling efficiency. Should you do so, you should use unfaced rock wool/mineral wool batts and not add an interior vapor barrier. This will cause your space to dry to the inside, so mechanical dehumidification may prove necessary. Should you choose to leave gap open, you can used faced batts.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a 40″ side wall pole barn with rough cut red oak 6″ x 6″ posts on 8″ centers. The posts are bolted to engineered U braces that are secured in the concrete. The top of the posts have 2″ x 8″ rough cut red oak inside and out secured with through bolts. The bottom of the posts where they are secured to the u braces seem to me as a pivot point. Would “Y” bracing from the top down to about 4 foot to the center of each post be sufficient, or do I need to come down to the bottom near the U braces and run a board all the way across the 40 foot span and then 1 in the middle and “W” brace the side walls. I was thinking of keeping it open with the oak sealed with linseed oil or equivalent for looks, but could close in the sides. Thanks RUSS in STUARTS DRAFT

DEAR RUSS: Thank you for reaching out to me. Your dilemma should ideally be solved by a Registered Professional Engineer, however your build is going to add a degree of complexity and liability most engineers do not want to take on – ungraded rough sawn lumber. I would recommend you contact a few local engineers, as anyone interested in taking this on should come to your building site and do a thorough analysis of what you have. From this, they may be able to design engineered repairs for anything they find to be structurally inadequate.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Heating, Building Department, Constructing a Pole Building, Shouse, Pole Barn Structure, Ventilation, Building Interior, Lumber, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Questions and tagged moisture barrier, rough-sawn lumber, own lumber, insulation, U-brackets, structural design, registered design professional on February 2, 2022 by admin.

Suitable Base, Insulation, and Building in Flood Zone

This week the Pole Barn Guru addresses questions about whether or not a base will be suitable for a slab, if a person HAS to insulate if they intend to heat the structure, and building 13′ above grade foundation in a flood zone.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Good morning, I’m getting ready to have a slab poured in my 30’x30′ pole barn, the slab will be 7 inches thick (was meant to be 6 but I failed to bring the base material up high enough) of 4000psi, with fiber mesh along with wire mesh. The pad site is level and compacted asphalt millings (compacted by a 14 ton vibrating roller). The base material I was advised to use is a “clean fill”, that is mined from below ground from a local quarry, its best described as similar to a baseball infield dirt. The base is approximately five inches thick. I personally put the base down, spraying it with water and compacting with a vibrating plate compacter as I went. My main question is based upon your knowledge, is it your opinion that this will provide a suitable base for the slab? I appreciate any input you may have. Thank you and thanks for a great site! ADAM in CLARKSBURG

DEAR ADAM: Thank you for your kind words. Concrete makes for very expensive fill and unless you are planning on some very heavy equipment being placed on your slab, more than four inches is probably unnecessary. As to your base, without having had a Geotechnical Engineer do a site analysis, it is impossible for me to confirm adequacy of your fill as described. Your “clean fill”, as described, has me somewhat concerned as baseball infield dirt is fairly fine and could prove a challenge in obtaining adequate compaction. Normally I would expect to see 3/4″ minus or similar crushed stone.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: If an individual builds a pole barn that he intends to fully heat does he HAVE to insulate it? Can’t find a definitive answer in the IBC or IECC. BOB in CROWN POINT

DEAR BOB: If your heating source requires a permit, your Building Department is going to expect appropriate insulation. From a practicality standpoint, it would be prudent to insulate.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, Our property is in a flood zone. We would need to build on a 13 foot above grade elevated foundation. Any ideas if this is feasible with a pole barn kit? Thank you ED in BOLIVIA

DEAR ED: Fully engineered post frame buildings are very adaptable to flood zones, they make excellent for excellent stilt houses. Our engineers will need some specifics on your property’s flood specifics. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/09/stilt-houses/

This entry was posted in Concrete, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Heating, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Structure and tagged soil compaction, slab, flood zone, suitable base, heated shed, above grade foundation, insulation on January 26, 2022 by admin.

Engineer Andy Ponders Insulation and Condensation

Engineer Andy Ponders Insulation and Condensation

Loyal (and prolific) blog reader ANDY in OXFORD writes:

“First, THANK YOU for providing so much valuable information in your blog, free of charge. I’m an engineer, quite handy, with construction experience. But everything I know about post frame construction, I learned from you. I’ve been planning for over a year, and I’ve read your first 1700 or so blogs. I’m about to place an order with Catherine Suarez, (she’s been very patient, by the way) for a 30x36x11. 6/12 roof with vented soffits and ridge, gable overhangs, and dripstop on roof steel. Location is north Mississippi, 30’s in winter, 90’s in summer with 60% to 80% humidity any time of year. It will be used as a dedicated woodworking shop, heated just above ambient in winter (except when I’m working there) and cooled only when I’m out there (rarely) in summer. I know you must get tired of insulation/condensation questions because you get so many of them. But it’s not something that’s intuitive to most of us. It’s the thing I’m least confident about. And I HATE rusty cast iron. I plan to install plywood or OSB ceiling with blown insulation above. House wrap between wall steel and girts (I would have never thought of house wrap), and craft-backed insulation between the commercial girts. Oh yes, and a good vapor barrier under the slab. So my question is . . . is this sufficient? What would Mike do??Thanks again for what you do.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru writes:
Thank you very much for your kind words, they are greatly appreciated. If I ever have to give a technical presentation on post-frame buildings, can I recruit you for my front row?

Post frame construction appears so simple at first glance, yet is highly technical and (like most things) it is in the details where they either work as expected or fall flat (literally). A set of calculations for even a simple rectangle can easily run over a hundred pages in verifying every member and connection!

Catherine is a dream. I love her clients as they know exactly what they are investing in and it makes for an extremely smooth process for all involved.

For some reason insulation and humidity are crucial areas seemingly left as an afterthought in far too many builds, often when it is too late to make economically sound corrections.

Lafayette County, Mississippi is in Climate Zone 3A (for reference). If you were building for a residence, 2021’s IECC (International Energy Conservation Code) would have R-49 ceilings, R-20 walls and R-10 slab perimeter insulation down two feet.

What would I do?

Even though you are probably not doing radiant in-floor heat, I would lay R-10 EPS insulation sheets on top of a well sealed under slab vapor barrier. If not, when it is 90 degrees F. and 80% humidity, the dew point is 83 degrees F. Your soil temperature could well be less than 70 degrees F., meaning you will have a damp floor from condensation.

For walls, a Weather Resistant Barrier and bookshelf girts are both winners in my book! I have become a proponent of rock/stone/mineral wool unfaced batts as they remain unaffected by moisture (and humidity) with a well-sealed 6mil clear poly vapor barrier inside. You have probably read this article: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/03/roxul-insulation/

Ceiling – I do still like blown in fiberglass for value vs. return. I would specify 18 inch energy heel trusses to allow for full thickness of R-49 insulation from wall-to-wall, in conjunction with vented eaves and ridge.

You will want to make certain you order a well insulated and wind-rated overhead door for your woodworking shop. Keep in mind, door manufacturers do tend to stretch reality with their insulation claims https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/02/high-r-value-overhead-doors/.

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Planning and tagged condensation, commercial girts, house wrap, IECC, craft backed insulation, EPS Insulation sheets, insulation, vapor barrier on January 13, 2022 by admin.

Moisture Management, Poor Steel Cutting, and Info Help

Today’s “Ask the Guru” tackles reader questions about moisture management, poorly done steel cutting around windows and doors, and help “Looking for info” for Jack.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi, I am framing out an animal barn (right now to be used for housing chickens and storing some feed and hay) inside of an existing metal, wood framed pole barn.

The structure is near identical to what was described in this previously posted question here:

Insulating a Room in an Unheated Pole Barn

The only difference is that the roof itself is not insulated.

In the new interior room we will be adding fiber insulation between the studs (with a large gap between the exterior metal and the insulation), and a vapor barrier on the interior side, then the sheathing (likely plywood) interior surface. Then insulation, vapor barrier, sheathing on the ceiling/ floor of the “attic” storage. We are adding a vent in one exterior wall and one interior wall for air flow.

Is this approach sound in terms of moisture management? I’m unsure if this becomes an issue at the top of pole barn wall where we have an open roof overhang. There are also plans to heat the remaining area of the barn down the road.

Appreciate any help! HANNAH

DEAR HANNAH: If you have no vapor barrier under your concrete floor (or are unsure if you do or not) seal it to prevent moisture from coming up through it. I would recommend using unfaced rock wool batt insulation, as it is impervious to moisture. Do not use a vapor barrier in your ceiling.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello! I am in the process of building a pole barn that has several windows and walk-thru doors. As such, when I look closely at the exterior around these windows and doors, they look a little sloppily done where the metal siding meets up with the finish around the window and door openings. Is there a product that will help seal the 2 pieces of metal together as well as look nicer? I can provide a picture if you’d like. I was wondering if caulk is the way to go – or is there some double-sided sticky sealant foam type product that would work? Thank you! TRICIA in SUGARCREEK TWP

DEAR TRICIA: Yes, what you have was done very sloppily. Whoever built this for you should be replacing some panels to provide a much tighter fit between wall steel and J Channel around windows. While they are at it, here is how to create a leak free window: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/03/no-leak-barndominium-windows/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Looking for info. JACK in MIDDLESEX

DEAR JACK: A great place for info is the www.HansenPoleBuildings.com website. Navigate to the upper right corner of the page and click on SEARCH, type in whatever term you want information on (e.g. BARNDOMINIUMS) and ENTER. Up will come relevant articles for you (there are over 2000 of them).

You may also want to get our helpful Planning Guide https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/pole-barn-planning-guide/

This entry was posted in Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Building Siding, Ventilation, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Heating, Roofing Materials, Constructing a Pole Building and tagged insulation, caulking windows, pole barn planning, moisture barrier, steel cutting, moisture management on December 22, 2021 by admin.

A Basement Foundation, Vapor Barrier for Arena, and a Hansen Kit

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about building a post frame building on a basement foundation, insulation vs a reflective radiant barrier, and a question about what is include in a Hansen Building kit.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Is it possible to erect one of the pole barn kits on a basement foundation? LUCAS in LANDISBURG

DEAR LUCAS: Absolutely – if you are planning a poured concrete, concrete block or ICF foundation, you will want us to provide wet set brackets to be placed in top of your walls when they are poured. We also offer an option of a Permanent Wood Foundation.

Here is some extended reading: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/02/barndominium-on-a-daylight-basement/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hey can you enlighten me on this product and if you are still using it in pole barn applications, I am considering a riding arena and need especially if commercial a vapor barrier and some added R-Value I am looking at the R-22 product.

Thanks,

Any information would be helpful Insulation4less.com doesn’t seem to have a phone number and very difficult to contact.

Saw Your Page:
https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/tag/prodex/

ROBERT in ROCHESTER

DEAR ROBERT: Thank you for reaching out to us. If you will note, in reference to our page where you found us, Prodex is a Radiant Reflective Barrier (RRB) – it is NOT insulation, regardless of what claims might be made by any distributor of this product.

Here is some further discussion about RRBs: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/04/reflective-insulation-wars/
In Southern Minnesota you are in Climate Zone 6. Here would be my recommendations:

Roof – order roof steel with an Integral Condensation Control (Condenstop or Dripstop) factory applied. Install a steel ceiling across truss bottom chords, blow fiberglass insulation in above steel ceiling. Vent attic at eaves with enclosed vented soffits and ridge.

Walls – use a Weather Resistant Barrier (aka Housewrap) between framing and wall steel. Place bookshelf wall girts two foot on center and fill wall cavity with rockwool batt insulation and an interior vapor barrier.
One of our Building Designers will reach out to you to further discuss your riding arena needs.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What is all included in a pole barn home kit?

AMANDA in HAVRE

DEAR AMANDA: Thank you for your interest in a new Hansen Pole Building. These would be included items:

Fully engineered plans including:
Layout of all columns
Roof framing plan showing all trusses, rafters and purlins
Section view(s) through building
Elevations of all exterior walls showing all wall girts, window(s) and door(s) framing
Roofing and siding layouts
Connection details of all members
Any framing layouts for raised wood floors (either over crawl spaces or for 2nd or 3rd floors
Stair details

Verifying calculations from the engineer

Construction (assembly) Manual – over 500 pages of step-by-step instructions, fully illustrated

Unlimited FREE Technical Support

Fully itemized Material List

All Materials necessary to assemble structural portions of your building, including doors and windows, with the exception of concrete, rebar and any nails normally driven by a nail gun.

This entry was posted in Professional Engineer, Roofing Materials, Horse Riding Arena, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Heating, Ventilation, Concrete, Lumber, Footings, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design and tagged insulation, engineer sealed plans, vapor barrier, reflective radiant barrier, sealed plans, materials kit, wet set brackets, post frame basement, basement foundation on December 15, 2021 by admin.

Barndominium Closed Cell Spray Foam

Barndominium Closed Cell Spray Foam – and Rodents

Closed cell spray foam applied directly to steel roofing and siding can be a great product for controlling condensation, achieving an air tight barndominium and at R-7 per inch is a great insulation solution. So good, I strongly encourage its use, especially for those buildings in Climate Zones one and two (deep South).

One thing it does not do is to prevent mice, rodents and other similar pests from enjoying your comfortable living spaces.

It’s important to understand what it is inviting critters in to begin with.

Where your barndominium has most air leaks is where rodents, bats and bugs come in through. Usually this is poorly detailed and installed steel trims.

When these pests are looking for a nice, comfortable place to stay, they are going to run along outside barndominium’s exterior until they find an opening. Basically, these rascally little rodents are looking for air movement out of your barndominium.

If it’s cold outside and your barndominium is leaking heat, a mouse is going to find those leaks and consider it as a warm invitation in!

Seal up any openings where these critters can get into your barndominium, especially if you notice openings in your roof or along wall steel base. Those are issues you’ll want to take care of right away.

Once this is done, adding closed cell spray foam insulation can help.

Spray foam offers no food value to rodents or pests.

Good thing about closed cell spray foam when it comes to pests is it does help to seal up those cracks and crevices where it is sprayed, making it more difficult for those unwanted guests to get inside. This is because closed cell spray foam creates an air seal keeping inside air where it belongs.

As creatures search for drafts coming from your barndominium, closed cell spray foam’s air barrier leaves nothing for those varmints to find.

Closed cell spray foam insulation is in no way a repellant. As mice, bats, rats, and other pests can chew through wood to get into and out of your barndominium, they can of course chew through closed cell spray foam.

Closed cell spray foam insulation in your barndominium can definitely help keep pests out as it provides a defensive layer to keep pests out by blocking those air leaks they are looking for.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Constructing a Pole Building, Barndominium, Pole Barn Planning, Shouse, Ventilation, Pole Barn Homes, Post Frame Home and tagged closed cell spray foam, closed cell spray foam insulation, insulation, air movement, condensation, barndominium, rodents on December 2, 2021 by admin.

Insulation Prep, Foundation and Footing Prep, and USDA Programs

Today’s Pole Barn Guru tackles reader questions about plans to insulate and preparations ahead of insulating, recommendation for framing and footing an apartment to prevent movement, and if the PBG knows whether or not the USDA programs apply to post frame homes.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am currently constructing my Hansen provided pole building, to be used as a shop. I plan to eventually insulate the walls with rolled fiberglass. My question is, are there any preparations I should make during construction? House wrap under my steel siding? Are inside closure normally provided for use between base trim/siding? Thanks, KURT in PORT ORCHARD

DEAR KURT: Thank you for your investment in a new Hansen Pole Building – be sure to send me lots of progress photos during construction (and of course ones when it is all complete).

In your Climate Zone, I would recommend using a Weather Resistant Barrier between wall framing and siding. You can either use Kraft faced fiberglass insulation or unfaced batts with a 6mil clear poly vapor retarder on inside of your insulation.

Inside closures are not a standard feature for wall steel, however they are relatively affordable and your Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer can reach out to you on Monday with a price on them.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I would like to build a 30x72x18 monitor-style barn with a small apartment w/loft one end. How would you recommend framing and footing the apartment to prevent movement between the “two” buildings? Full foundation? Slab? Other Ideas? GREG in KALISPELL

DEAR GREG: Any possible movement would come from either inadequately compacted or loose soil below column footings, inadequate footing diameter, or frost heave. To prevent frost heave, columns footings should be placed at frost depth or deeper and perimeter of slab should be insulated vertically with rigid insulation. In your climate zone, this would entail a four foot ‘tall’ R-10 insulation board. Install on inside face of pressure preservative treated splash plank, with top of insulation even with top of concrete slab. As an alternative, you can insulate slab perimeter per Frost-Protected Shallow Foundation requirements found here (note, slab edge does not have to be thickened or have a stem wall): https://www.huduser.gov/publications/pdf/fpsfguide.pdf

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello Guru! We were wondering if the USDA Rural Development program allows for the construction of a pole barn home? KIRSTYN in LANSDALE

DEAR KIRSTYN: I am finding nothing precluding a fully engineered post frame home from qualifying. It does appear qualification for these programs is fairly stiff for potential borrowers.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Building Styles and Designs, Post Frame Home, Pole Barn Planning, Shouse, Concrete, Footings, Professional Engineer and tagged footings, house wrap, weather resistant barrier, foundation, building movement, insulation, Loans, frost heave, USDA loans on December 1, 2021 by admin.

Convert to Residence, Insulation, and Truss Spans

Today’s Pole Barn Guru addresses reader questions about building upgrades to convert to a residential use, how to best insulate a monitor style building, and the possibility of trusses spanning 40′ to eliminate interior posts in a shop/storage building.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We bought a pole barn with no insulation, just studs and metal siding. We added faced batting insulation. But now we are thinking of making it a residential building. Do we need to remove the siding and put OSB and a vapor barrier house wrap on it? How do we refit this for a residence? KIMBERLY in COLUMBUS

DEAR KIMBERLY: No you do not have to add OSB and a Weather Resistant Barrier to your exterior walls.
Most pole barns are not designed to support wind and snow loads to extents required for residential applications – you should invest in services of a Registered Professional Engineer who can do a physical examination of your pole barn to determine structural adequacy and provide solutions for upgrades to make it safe for you to live in.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: This has been covered 1 million times but I wanted to reach out directly! I’m in North Carolina. I have a 30×50 pole barn with a 20×50 lean to off both sides. The lean tos are accessible from inside the main shop. So imagine one large open space. Lean to walls are 10’ rising to 14’. Main shop is 16’ rising to about 22’ at the peak. I have bubble wrap foil under the metal on the roof. Open 2×6 ceiling. 2×6 walls with nothing on them but metal. I will add interior wall coverings probably in the form of 7/16 osb. Concrete has vapor barrier.

Now, I’ve been told to do closed cell insulation on my walls 1” thick. I wanted an opinion on whether to go every inch of the walls top to bottom all the way to the roof? Would I benefit from the insulation at all by just going to the 10’ mark (my lowest wall height) because that’s as high as my interior osb is going anyway. I guess what I am asking is it any benefit to insulate closed cell up to 10’ mark from the floor and then just bubble foil the main shop above 10’ to give a finished look? THOMAS in PLEASANT HILL

DEAR THOMAS: Unless you are planning on some degree of climate control in your building, there would be no real reason to make an investment into closed cell spray foam. If controlling interior temperature is a goal, then spend your money on insulation in your roof/ceiling where over ¾ of your heat loss/gain is coming from, before spending money on wall insulation.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We are looking to build a 40×90 pole barn, with 1/3rd being used for storage and 2/3rds for a vehicle maintenance. Both will be heated and storage cooled. Concrete floor, shingled roof, insulated, vertical metal siding, no windows, 5 overhead doors on the same side. Can you span the trusses from wall to wall and provide the above with no center columns? Thank you, ROD in CLEVELAND

DEAR ROD: Prefabricated metal connector plated wood trusses allow for some tremendous clearspan opportunities. We provide fully engineered post frame buildings with clearspans up to (and in some instances beyond) 80 feet. Your 40 foot width can quite easily be accommodated without any interior columns. One of our Building Designers will be reaching out to you Monday to further discuss your building needs.

This entry was posted in Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Trusses, Ventilation, Building Interior, Professional Engineer, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions and tagged truss span, insulation, moisture barrier, post frame house, Residence, Conversion on November 3, 2021 by admin.

Cupola Sizes, Insulation for a Ceiling, and Structural Pieces

This week the Pole Barn Guru tackles reader questions about cupola sizes, the proper way to insulate a shed ceiling, and a structural materials question.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What base size and height is correct for a cupolas for a 32’ wide by 36’ long by 35-40’ high with a 10 over 12 pitch roof? Thank you for your answer. NANCY in SPENCER

DEAR NANCY: This may answer some of your questions: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/09/cupola/. As to actual height of your cupola(s) – this is totally subjective based upon what you feel looks best.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m desperately trying to figure out the proper way to insulate my pole shed ceiling. The Purlins run parallel rather than peak to eves. And there are no soffits or vents to be had. I have metal roofing with fiberglass roll insulation between roofing and purlins that has the vapor barrier backing. I’m afraid to slice holes in this vapor barrier as it may cause the metal roofing to condensate. My purlins are conducting cold temps in winter and when the heat hits them, they grow mold in some places as they’re very cold – or hot in the summer. Can I install the paper back fiberglass between purlins and be okay? I’m hoping would slow moisture down. but allow it to dry as well. IDK I’m in the NW mountains of Oregon, we do get low temps and snow and the shop is mildly heated in winter. I can’t afford to redo the roof or go with blown in foam. Is there another way? Can I use fiberglass batting safely? My end goal is to have tin roofing on the ceiling, is that okay? Sorry to bother you with such a common question but I haven’t found anyone with my exact issue. Thanks so much for your time and I sincerely hope to hear from you, big fan, DAVE in GALES CREEK

DEAR DAVE: Appreciate your being a big fan – thank you!

No, you cannot/should not install paper (kraft faced) backed fiberglass insulation between your building’s roof purlins. This would create a system with two vapor barriers, trapping moisture between them. Start by looking to what is probably your source of moisture – your concrete floor. If you do not have a well-sealed vapor barrier underneath it, use a sealant on top of your concrete to reduce moisture coming up through your slab. After you have your steel ceiling in place, blow in fiberglass insulation above it, and install vents in each gable end and under your ridge cap.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What is the type of steel (cold roll, stainless, etc.) used and the thickness of the trusses and main poles holding the structure up. ERIC in PAHRUMP

DEAR ERIC: 40 years ago I provided a post frame building kit package for a tire dealer in Pahrump!

Most steel roofing and siding is cold roll formed. These panels most typically have SMP paint (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/05/smp/) over a galvanized or galvalume substrate. There are Building Code minimum requirements for residential steel roofing substrates (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/11/minimum-steel-substrate-coating/). Hansen Pole Buildings use two-ply (for interior spans) 1-1/2″ width (2x lumber) chords and webs for prefabricated roof trusses, assembled with 16, 18 or 20 gauge galvanized steel pressed in connector plates. Plate thickness is determined by truss engineers to meet tension requirements. Main roof supporting members may be either glulaminated or solid sawn timbers, depending upon eave heights, roof slope, applied wind and/or snow loads, dead weight of roof assembly and availability of materials in a given market. Actual sizing will be determined by our third-party engineers.

This entry was posted in Building Interior, Building Styles and Designs, Roofing Materials, Constructing a Pole Building, Professional Engineer, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Structure, Lumber, Insulation, Trusses, Pole Barn Questions, Ventilation, Pole Barn Design and tagged ceiling insulation, roof condensation, cupola, trusses, cupola sizes, cupola base, insulation, steel rolls, condensation, roll form on October 25, 2021 by admin.

At What Temperature Can You Not Spray Foam Insulation?

Reader DON in ELLSWIRTH asked this question.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru responds:
Ideally, spray foam insulation should be installed during warmer months. Once temperatures start dipping, spray foam insulation installation processes become a lot more challenging. For a successful spray foam insulation installation, application side surface typically needs to fall between 60 and 80 degrees Fahrenheit. If temperatures are below this range, there’s a greater potential for equipment breakdowns and a larger chance foam will pop, shrink, and fail to adhere properly to substrates.

With this said, it is possible to successfully install spray foam insulation when temperatures dip below this range.

Installing spray foam during winter months is more challenging, but one can increase potential for a successful installation in several ways. One way to successfully apply spray foam insulation in winter, despite less than ideal conditions, is to use a winter blend of spray foam. Closed-cell spray foams can be formulated into a winter blend allowing them to withstand colder environmental and surface temperatures. If you want to install open-cell spray foam insulation, however, it’s not possible to create a winterized formulation. Instead, you must create a suitable environment at installation site (e.g. add heat to building).

In addition to using a right blend of spray foam, making application adjustments for lower ambient temperature is also important. When applying spray foam when temperatures are colder, it’s important to keep hose off any ice, snow, or concrete, as doing so will cause heat to be drawn out more quickly. Minimizing distances between spray rig and application site will also reduce heat loss by reducing hose amount exposed to elements.

On especially cold days, using a smaller application gun mix chamber can keep material warmer. Doing so will slow material’s flow so it stays in heated system longer. It’s important to note installation process of spray foam is generally much longer during winter due to need for such accommodations.

Installing spray foam insulation is a complicated and potentially dangerous process if you don’t have necessary equipment and expertise. As such, it’s always best to hire a professional spray foam insulation contractor—especially during winter, when installation processes are even more complex.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Planning, Building Interior and tagged insulation, insulation installation, open cell spray foam insulation, closed cell spray foam insulation, winter blend spray foam insulation on October 6, 2021 by admin.

How to Insulate a Post Frame Shop

How to Insulate a Post Frame Shop When No Advance Considerations Were Made

I encourage clients to give some serious advance consideration when erecting new post frame (pole) buildings to any eventuality of future climate control and a need for insulation.

Reader MAC in MILLVILLE writes:

“40 x 30 want to insulate. It will be used as a storage/workshop. I included pictures so you can see what I have. What’s the best way to insulate? I plan on doing metal ceiling liner and most likely plywood on the walls. There is no vapor barrier under the concrete either. I do have a vented ridge and soffit. I hope I provided enough information to be able to answer my question.”

Start by sealing your concrete floor – as this is going to be a moisture source you do not want inside of your new building.

Roof/ceiling – no provision has been made to prevent condensation from happening beneath your roof steel. Sadly I see this occur far too often, as builders, kit providers and local lumberyards just lack knowledge needed to be able to educate and make best recommendations to their clients. You could either (a) remove roof steel, add a method of condensation control (such as a Reflective Radiant Barrier or sheathing such as OSB or plywood with either 30# felt or a synthetic ice and water shield) and reinstall steel using new, large diameter screws. This is highly labor intensive and your roof may not have been designed to support the weight of adding sheathing.

Best solution will be to have two inches of closed cell spray foam applied to the underside of roof steel at roughly two dollars a square foot. Not an inexpensive solution when its need could have been prevented with better advice up front.

Cumberland County is in Climate Zone 4A, as such you should have a minimum of R-49 ceilings and R-20 walls. Perimeter of your slab should be insulated two feet deep with R-10.

I would dig a trench two feet deep around your building, up tight to its pressure preservative treated splash plank and install R-10 rigid board XPS insulation from the height of the top of the slab down two feet. Install a metal, cement board, or cellular PVC panel to conceal any insulation portion left exposed above grade. If cement board is used, it should be a type not reinforced with wood fibers. Install a metal cap as an insect guard to conceal the top horizontal edge of both insulation board and closure panel. Seal cap to splash plank with mastic.

Once you have a ceiling liner in place, blow in R-49 or greater thickness of fiberglass insulation.

For walls, I normally like to see a Weather Resistant Barrier (like Tyvek) between framing and siding. As you do not have this, I would use R-21 unfaced Rockwool stone wool insulation, as it is not affected by moisture. Place a well-sealed 6mil clear plastic vapor barrier over the inside of insulation prior to placing plywood on walls.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Roofing Materials, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Concrete, Workshop Buildings and tagged closed cell spray foam insulation, rock wool insulation, concrete floor seal, metal ceiling liner, rigid board XPS insulation, cement board, insulation, cellular PVC panel, condensation, sealing concrete floor on September 15, 2021 by admin.

Cabin Insulation Follow Up

Cabin Insulation Follow Up

First Winter Heating Bill

Mike’s loyal readers may recall that I was privileged to be able to write several blog articles on the development of my plans to build my fishing cabin.

https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/03/development-of-my-cabin-plans/

https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/03/pole-barn-cabin-part-ii/

https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/03/participating-in-ricks-post-frame-cabin-planning/

https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/04/my-pole-barn-cabin-part-iii/

https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/10/my-fishing-cabin-is-finished/

During my time as a Building Designer, I strongly emphasized to all of my clients that they should have an insulation plan for their building BEFORE they order the building! The reason being that any design elements for the insulation, such as 2×8 walls or 2×10 roof purlins can be designed prior to ordering.

One of the blogs went into detailed information on how I insulated the building in which I said tongue in cheek that the winter will tell the tale of how well it worked. For that reason, I thought that I’d send in the “Paul Harvey” version.

This link tells you how and why I insulated it the way that I did, with pictures:

https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/06/fishing-cabin-insulation/

Now for the rest of the story

On December 15th, 2020 I had the LP company top off my tank a little extra. My driveway is 700 feet and I did not intend to plow it and wanted to be sure that there was ample gas to get through the winter. They filled it to 92%.

They did not refill the tank until 7-20 21. They filled it from 62% to 80%! It only took from 92% down to 62% to heat the building ALL winter!

I would leave the thermostat set at about 50 degrees and when I would come out, the in-floor heat would have a hard time getting the building warm. No problem. The wood burning stove would get the temperature up to 70 in less than two hours and the in-floor heating would keep it there.

All in all, I am very happy about it! Less than $200 to heat for the whole winter and it got cold!

When planning your building be sure to have the insulation plan prior to ordering the building!

This entry was posted in Uncategorized and tagged wood burning stove, insulation, girts, purlins, in-floor heat, fishing cabin, 2x8 walls, 2x10 roof purlins on September 1, 2021 by admin.

Insulating a Hybrid Building

Insulating a Hybrid Building

Reader COLTON in DAWSON writes:

“Insulation question? I am going with a Worldwide Steel Building. Identical to a Perka. Part of it will be shop and part will be house. It’s a steel web truss with wood purlins and girts. I’m stuck on a lot of guys say just put house wrap on the entire outside or a foil. And batt/roll in the 2’ purlin and girt spacing. And some want to use metal building insulation and roll it on top. I’m not sold on the squashing it in between the tin and possibly causing issues there. I would rather house wrap it and fill in between the purlins and girts with unfaced fiberglass then add a clear vapor barrier inside and then install tin inside the shop and drywall inside the house. Just want your honest opinion since you lived and learned. I enjoy all your helpful information. Thanks!”

My grandson Colton just turned 10 yesterday!

Thank you for your kind words.

You are now faced with what can be a perplexing challenge with a steel framework/wood girts and purlins hybrid building – how to best insulate.

For walls – siding, weather resistant barrier (aka house wrap), unfaced batts, clear poly, interior finish works fine. On your roof, house wrap allows moisture to pass through and be trapped between it and roof steel – possibly causing premature degradation of your roofing. You need a thermal break directly below roof steel. I would recommend an Integral Condensation Control (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/). If this is not an available option, then a Reflective Radiant Barrier with well-sealed seams will work (we have it in six foot wide rolls with a tab on one side having an adhesive pull strip). Metal Building Insulation can be an effective condensation control under roof steel (provided seams are sealed), however it is difficult to work with, provides limited actual insulation value and can cause your roof steel to pucker. Code requires ventilation from eave-to-ridge above batt insulation between purlins, and there is just no practical way to do it. Instead, place ceiling joists between bottom chords of steel frames and blow in fiberglass insulation. Vent dead attic space above insulation (ideally at eaves as an intake, ridge as an exhaust).

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design and tagged house wrap, unfaced fiberglass insulation, insulation, vapor barrier, metal building insulation, batt insulation on August 25, 2021 by admin.

Insulation Costs, A Pole Barn Home, and Wall Steel Options

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about adding insulation to a quote, a quote for a pole barn home, and the use of standing seam steel on exterior walls.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I live in Jim Thorpe, PA and have ordered a 20×24 Pole Building. The quote didn’t include insulation. So I asked for a separate quote. The quote included the following:

Openings
(1) Ceiling Liner access door insulated White $275
Insulation
Wall: R-21 w/Liner
Roof: R-38 w/Ceiling Liner
$5,808
$2,323

They don’t include the materials used, so I can’t research the materials cost. But does this sound like a reasonable quote? Seems high, but this is my first pole building. Maybe material cost is like lumber, UP UP UP…?

Can you give me your opinion or shed (no pun intended) any light on this? Thanks so much! ROBERT

DEAR ROBERT: Without knowing your building height, number and dimensions of windows and doors and how your building is proposed to be framed (without any liner), it is impossible to determine if this is or is not reasonable. Keep in mind, probably roughly half of this price is due to your provider’s overhead, profit and labor, so if you are handy at all, you might want to consider doing this work yourself.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Looking for a pole barn home.
Wish List:
Ranch Style
3 bedroom 2 bath
1 craft-hobby room
Overhang porch
Attached 2 car garage
Can this be designed and priced?
JOLENE in DUBUQUE

DEAR JOLENE: Yes, it can be both designed and priced.

First Step is the design phase:

Have professional floor plans and elevation drawings done before pestering a builder. Very few builders are professional designers or architects – expecting them to be is unrealistic.

If you do not own the dirt, it is impossible to craft a barndominium plan to best fit with your building site.

Some plan tips to consider:

Direction of access – driveways are not cheap and shortest distance between two points is a straight line.
Curb appeal – what will people see when they drive up? This may not be important to you, however some day someone will try to resell your barndominium.

Is there an appealing view?

North-south alignment – place no or few windows on north walls, but lots of windows on south wall. Roof overhangs on south wall should provide shade to windows from mid-day summer sun.

Is there a slope on your building site?

Work from inside out – do not try to fit your wants and needs within a preordained box just because someone said using a “standard” size might be cheaper. Differences in dimensions from “standard” are pennies per square foot, not dollars.

Popular home spaces and sizes need to be determined:

Room in a Barndominium

With all of this in mind, order our custom designed floor plans here: http://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/post-frame-floor-plans/?fbclid=IwAR2ta5IFSxrltv5eAyBVmg-JUsoPfy9hbWtP86svOTPfG1q5pGmfhA7yd5Q

Once your floor plans and elevation drawings have been completed, we can then give you an exact price.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi, my question is, can the standing seam roofing material you show in your building catalog be use for siding? RICH in MARYVILLE

DEAR RICH: Absolutely, however it would need to be applied over 5/8″ CDX plywood as it is non-structural. Small world – my oldest son and his family lived in Maryville for many years, his mother and I helped build a post frame garage with a mother-in-law apartment above it in their backyard.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Planning, Steel Roofing & Siding, Pole Building Siding, Alternate Siding, Budget and tagged pole barn house, Post Frame Home, building quotes, insulation, steel siding, standing seam steel on August 9, 2021 by admin.

Home Addition, Combo Building, and Moisture Barriers

This week the PBG answers reader questions about a post frame addition to a house, a combo business/residential building, and use of a vapor barrier.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We bought an older ranch house with a poorly done addition in the back. Since this dream property came with a house that prevents me building my dream barndominium, what are your thoughts on replacing this addition with a post beam constructed addition? if we pour a slab for the floor there would be about 2 or 3 steps down to the new room. it would allow for ground level indoor/ outdoor living, higher ceilings than the rest of the ranch, and give me just a bit of the open living space with exposed trusses that I’ve dreamed of. Carolyn

DEAR CAROLYN: Fully engineered post frame additions work well with pretty much any existing structural system. You also are not obligated to use steel roofing and siding, so it can be designed to match with your home. Another advantage is – you can do this sort of work yourselves, without having to hire it done!

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Combination business and residential? Square footage of 7000. Can it be done? KEVIN in FLORISSANT

DEAR KEVIN: Interesting timing, as I was just going through some old family photos this week and found one of my grandfather in their grocery store from the 1930’s. My mother and grandparents lived upstairs from this store.

As for modern day combination business and residential, it can certainly be done using a fully engineered post frame building. Depending upon use classification of your business, it is likely you will be required to have at least a one hour fire separation between these dissimilar uses (really not any major thing – just a consideration).

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, I have a 24x50x8 pole building, concrete floor, and all metal is screwed directly to the wood framing. The purlins are spaced 2′ OC between the trusses, and I have 3.5″ closed cell rigid foam board to install between the 2×4 purlins. For the walls I have 1.5″ closed cell rigid board to install between the girts.

On the underside of the purlins after the closed cell rigid insulation is installed, I intend to install metal panels from the ridge to the walls. So, outside to inside it will be the following: Roof metal, then 2×4 purlins with 3.5″ rigid closed cell foam board in between, then metal panels installed on the interior. I will not have anything on the bottom chord of the trusses.

On the walls I plan to cut-to-fit the 1.5″ closed cell rigid foam board and install between the girts. After foam board is installed I intend to line all interior walls with painted OSB.

Question: based on the above, can I use vapor barrier (or plastic) between the interior metal and the 3.5″ foam board, and extend the vapor barrier down the walls between the foam board and the OSB? Or do you have another recommendation? COREY IN COULTERVILLE

DEAR COREY: You are far more ambitious than me, to cut and fit all those insulation boards to fit between purlins and girts. As it will be impossible to perfectly seal all of those joints between insulation and framing, it would be a good idea to install a well-sealed vapor barrier between insulation boards and steel liner panels. Keep in mind, you may end up with some humidity issues inside of your building (especially if there is no vapor barrier under your concrete floor), so you may need to have some sort of mechanical dehumidification.

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Building Interior, Pole Barn Homes, Insulation, Post Frame Home, Pole Barn Questions, Building Styles and Designs, Shouse, Pole Barn Planning and tagged moisture barrier, side shed, post frame addition, combo building, insulation, mixed use structure, vapor barrier on August 2, 2021 by admin.

Spray Foam, Crawl Space Floors, and Column Sizes for Shed

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about spray foam application of a vapor barrier, finishing a crawl space floor, and to go with 3 ply or 4 ply columns– this is dependent upon many things.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: New Construction – Can spray foam insulation be spray over a vapor barrier blanket in the roof of a pole barn, too increase insulation rating?

Thank you, TERRY in WILSONVILLE

DEAR TERRY: In your part of our world, most often roof condensation is controlled by use of what is known as a “Condensation Control Blanket” – a thin layer of fiberglass bonded to a white vinyl backing. When laps are properly sealed (rarely done right) it does make for an effective vapor barrier, although it provides minimal, at best, insulating value.

I am not a fan of spray foaming to any flexible barrier in walls or roofs (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/04/spray-foam-insulation-3/).

My first choice would be to design your building to be capable of supporting a ceiling, use raised heel trusses and blow in fiberglass insulation. With raised heel trusses you can get full thickness from wall-to-wall and you do not end up heating dead space between roof trusses. Roof steel should be ordered with a Integral Condensation Control (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/) and adequate ventilation provided at eaves and ridge.

Second choice would be to omit condensation blanket and Integral Condensation Control and use two inches or more of closed cell spray foam directly to underside of roof steel. This will not be nearly as effective as choice number one.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: After reading several articles on your website I’m leaning towards building a single story post frame home with about a 4 foot crawl space so that I get benefits of a floor not hard on the joints and access to any plumbing or electrical if things go wrong. I would also like to build as close to a passive or net zero home (within a reasonable budget) but was wondering how to do that with a dirt floor crawl space. I’ve read that the best way is to keep crawl space within the envelope of the home but I’ve only read of a vapor barrier that is covering the dirt floor. Thanks for all your help. TODD in HENNING

DEAR TODD: Thank you for being a loyal reader. My knees and your joints must be related – as nothing pains me more than standing on a concrete floor for even relatively short periods of time.

Most crawl spaces are created with dirt floors, face it, they are low budget and meet Code with a 6mil black Visqueen Vapor Barrier installed. Now retired Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer Rick Carr built himself a hunting cabin over a crawl space a year ago and decided to take a slightly different route. He opted to do a thin layer of concrete to cover ground in his crawl space, with an idea of being able to roll around using a mechanic’s creeper, should he need to work on sub-floor utilities. Here is an excerpt from part of Rick’s planning: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/03/pole-barn-cabin-part-ii/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am putting up a 60x135machine shed. 18 ft sidewalls, I’m wondering if the 3 2×8 laminated columns are enough or if i should spend 2900.00 more to go to 4 2×8 columns. thanks, SHANE in ASHTON

DEAR SHANE: Your question leads me to believe you are attempting to make a hundred thousand dollar plus building investment, without benefit of fully engineered structural plans.

Column sizes will be dictated by effects of column spacing, design wind speed and exposure (an Exposure C site being subjected to 20% greater wind forces), roof snow loads, dead weight of roof system (including any ceiling), roof slope as well as proper diaphragm design of your building shell.

I will implore you to please, please, please build only from a fully engineered plan. Think of it as an investment into one-time insurance. I only want to see you put this building up one time.

This entry was posted in Workshop Buildings, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Building How To Guides, Ventilation, Professional Engineer, Columns, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Design and tagged crawl space, engineer sealed structural plans, insulation, glulaminated column, spray foam, crawl space floors, concrete crawl space, condensation control, glulams on June 21, 2021 by admin.

Roof Sheeting, Blueprints, and Condensation Control

Today the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about adding sheeting and tar paper to a metal roof, if we could supply blueprints for project 08-0602, and condensation control for a tight structure.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can most pole building metal roofs support the extra weight of sheeting and tar paper (underlayment)? TAMI in SCOTTSDALE

DEAR TAMI: Most pole building roof systems are designed to support a bare minimum roof dead load – usually 2.5 to 3.3 psf (pounds per square foot). If this is your case, then your structure would not be able to support this added weight. We made a decision a year ago to use a minimum top chord (roof) dead load on all our roof trusses spanning 40 feet or less of five psf – just in case our clients decided to sheet their roofs with OSB or plywood with an underlayment and didn’t tell us about it in advance.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We want to build a pole barn 48×60 feet, like the Hansen building: Project# 08-0602 in Decatur, AL. Is there an existing blueprint we could use to built the structure and see all the bearing poles with all the dimension? We will have a designer to create the inside of the building. Are there some existing construction plans with detailed planning?
Nive Regards, PETRA in GREENBRIER

DEAR PETRA: Thank you for your interest in a new custom designed, fully engineered Hansen Pole Building. While we, of course, have in our records engineered plans for this structure. Due to differences in Building Code versions (referenced building was under 2006 Codes), and variations in design snow and wind loads, we would furnish an updated structural set of blueprints with your investment in your new building. These plans detail out locations and connections for every structural component of your building.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a 24×40 barn (steel sides, shingled/sheathed roof, concrete floor) that I’ll be heating. Walls and ceiling will have fiberglass batts insulation along with a vapor barrier on walls under OSB sheathing. OSB on ceiling as well. A buddy of mine caulked all his OSB joints then painted (latex) walls and ceiling in an attempt to further improve heating situation. In other blogs/questions you’ve answered with similar setups you talk about the importance of vapor and/or heated air needing to escape through ceiling into attic to help get rid of moisture. Will caulking and painting walls and ceiling limit the proper venting of moisture vapor from escaping my heated barn? JOHN in RICHLAND

DEAR JOHN: When buildings get so tight, it becomes necessary to use mechanical dehumidifying in order to prevent condensation challenges. For a barn, this might prove to be a greater investment than you wish to undertake.

Provided you have either no vapor barrier, or a Weather Resistant Barrier directly beneath your steel siding, if you caulk and paint interior walls, no vapor barrier and unfaced insulation will probably be more than an adequate design solution. You may want to consider rock wool batts as you are likely to have some condensation on inside of wall steel and fiberglass loses performance and can be prone to mold once it has gotten wet.

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Building Interior, Professional Engineer, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Homes, Roofing Materials, Constructing a Pole Building, Post Frame Home, Pole Barn Planning and tagged blueprints, roof sheeting, monitor buildings, insulation, tar paper, condensation, roof dead load on May 10, 2021 by admin.

Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Home Financing, and Insulation Assistance

This Monday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about pole barn homes, help with finding a lender for a post frame home, and an insulation solution for a gambrel style building.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, do you have any information on your pole barn homes? Looking to build in lower Michigan. HOLLY in WHITMORE LAKE

DEAR HOLLY: Thank you for your interest in a new Hansen Pole Buildings’ fully engineered custom designed pole barn (post frame) home. A great source of information to get you started is to visit www.HansenPoleBuildings.com, navigate to upper right corner and type BARNDOMINIUM into SEARCH box, then ENTER. Up will come a plethora of articles relating to pole barn homes. One of our Building Designers will be reaching out to you to assist, as well.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi, We are in the planning stages for our pole barn house we want to build. My question is about Lenders/financing for a Pole barn home- are there certain lenders that specialize in financing for Pole Barns? We were just going to apply for an FHA construction loan thru Rocket mortgage to cover the Lot purchase and the construction. Does Hansen offer a financing solution? Is there a better choice of lender that we should consider?

Thanks! MICHAEL in SHERMAN

DEAR MICHAEL: While there are lenders who specialize in pole barn home financing, you can use virtually any lender provided you follow the suggestions in this article: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/06/things-to-complete-before-going-to-a-barndominium-lender/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have an 80X40 Gambrel roof barn. It has metal on roof. I want to take off the metal and insulate the outside of the roof, to a commercial approved R 30. Should I leave the 2×4 strips going across the roof, insulate in between the 2×4 with closed cell foam and then use sips to make up the rest of the R Value? Or should I just continue with spray foam. Top ridge of roof is close to 40′, will spray foam to get to R30 be too heavy for the roof? I need to insulate the walls on the outside as well, but I can do some insulation on inner building as well. I would like to turn this barn into a commercial gathering space, so codes would need to be enforced. GORDON in GENESEO

DEAR GORDON: Unless there is some issue with your current steel roofing not performing (leaks or rust) I see no reason to remove it. SIPs, while a relatively ‘trick’ design solution, are also very expensive https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/02/sips-for-barndominiums/. An R-30 SIPs panel will cost roughly $4.66 per square foot and weighs in at a hefty four psf (pounds per square foot). To get to R-30, you could do two inches of closed cell spray foam directly applied to inside of your roof steel, then just over four inches of open cell to it, with a weight of under a pound per square foot – it will be less of an investment and you do not have to remove your existing roof steel.

Regardless of how you insulate, you should have a Registered Professional Engineer evaluate your structure for adequacy as a commercial venue.

This entry was posted in Barndominium, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Heating, Insulation, Gambrel, Pole Barn Questions and tagged R-30, post frame lenders, insulation, pole barn financing, spray foam insulation, SIPS, Pole barn home on May 3, 2021 by admin.

Is Cor-a-vent a Right Product for Me?

Is Cor-a-vent a Right Product for Me?

Reader (and Hansen Pole Buildings’ D-I-Yer) LEE in IDAHO FALLS writes:

“Would this product https://www.cor-a-vent.com/purlin-vent.cfm be suitable for providing eave vents where no overhangs were designed. This product would be installed by recessing the eave strut (purlin) 1″ below the roof line and filling the gap with this product to provide air intake flow. Seems a better option than gable vents to get the best airflow. It has a crush resistance of 7600# PSF.

Thanks”

For those who did not click on Lee’s link, here is some information from Cor-a-vent’s website:

“Is your insulation a wet blanket? Chances are it is. You know the problems all too well—cold side condensation on your metal roof and siding. You probably can’t see it, but it could be robbing you blind. Even slight amounts of moisture in blanket insulation can seriously reduce its R-value. Don’t count on vapor barriers—every seam and penetration has to be sealed perfectly, and how often does that happen on the job? Moisture vapor penetrates just about everything, and once it’s trapped, you have problems. The heating bill goes up, insulation can sag and the roof fasteners and purlins will start to rust. What do you do? Next building, you specify Purlin Vent™, from Cor-A-Vent—“The Leader In Innovative Rooftop Ventilation” ®

Purlin Vent is the first real system solution for venting behind roofing and siding in metal buildings. Made from sheets of crush proof profile extruded PP* Purlin Vent serves as an excellent thermal break between the metal roof and the purlin when foam insulation is used. For blanket insulation, Purlin Vent with Insulation Shield does two things. One, it keeps the blanket insulation away from the underside of the roof. Two, it creates a passageway for moisture to diffuse harmlessly to the outside. When used with any of Cor-A-Vent’s metal roof ridge vent applications, it creates a very effective system for removing moisture and keeping your insulation dry.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru’s take:

While your best possible attic ventilation system would be air intake at eave and exhaust at ridge, this product is probably not your solution.

Post frame buildings work due to shear strength of properly fastened skin – in your case steel roofing and siding. In roofs, greatest shear loads are at eave and ridge – this is why you see diaphragm screws on each side of every high rib in these locations. Cor-a-vent is designed for use in PEMB (Pre-engineered Metal Buildings aka ‘Red Iron’) where rigid steel frames are carrying wind loads from roof to ground. PEMBs do not rely upon a stressed skin for their structural integrity.

If this product was to be used on top of your eave strut, screw shanks would be able to work back and forth under wind loads, in Cor-a-vents thickness. Over time you could expect to develop leaks at your eave line due to screw slotting and, under critical loads, it could be possible for this connection to become overloaded.

Gable vents are realistically your option given your building has no eave overhangs to place vented soffit in.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Ventilation and tagged PEMB, red iron buildings, Cor-a-vent, Purlin vent, screw slotting, insulation, Foam insulation, ridge vent, attic ventilation system on April 30, 2021 by admin.

Insulation Option, Condensation Control, and Plans Only?

Today’s Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about adding a styrofoam insulation board to help keep a pole barn warm, how to best prevent condensation, and if one can purchase plans only instead of the complete kit.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I recently built a pole barn, I’m in Ohio. I put in a 15000w electric heater, it does an ok job as long as it’s not 20 degrees out. My question is, can I use styrofoam insulation board that is 1″ think for insulation on the trusses? I have a condensation layer on the roof metal. I’d like to start somewhere and I thought this would be least expensive. Thanks. TERRY in CARROLL

DEAR TERRY: If “on the trusses” is in reference to across truss bottom chords, chances are good your trusses can support their weight if your insulation board is polyisocyanurate. Polyiso weighs in at roughly 0.25 pounds per square foot per inch of thickness. An inch of polyiso provides an in service R value of roughly 5.6. Polyiso insulation may need to be fire or flame spread protected, by Building Code – you will want to consult with your local Building Official, prior to moving forward. Adequate ventilation must be provided for your dead attic space (read more about ventilation requirements here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/03/adequate-eave-ridge-ventilation/)

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m working on building a 30×40′ post frame building for storage/ garage and workshop and I live in Kansas so it’s cold in the winter and humid in the summer so I have concerns about condensation. I’ve looked into the single and double bubble foil insulation products and just the foil sheets for thermal/ condensation and the condensation blankets.

I plan to eventually insulate the walls and heat with a wood burning stove and just open the garage doors and turn on a fan in the summer. When I pour my slab I have 10mil vapor barrier that will go down on the ground.

What would be my best budget option to help control condensation and insulate some? JOEY in ANDOVER

DEAR JOEY: I will do my best to balance ‘best’ and ‘budget’.

Kudos for use of a under slab vapor barrier thicker than 6mil. My typical recommendation is 15mil, but 10 is certainly a step up. Make certain overlaps are well sealed and run it up inside and onto top of your pressure preservative treated splash planks (bottom girt).

Walls – use a well-sealed Weather Resistant Barrier (WRB) between framing and steel siding. Read more about WRBs here – https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2016/01/determining-the-most-effective-building-weather-resistant-barrier-part-1/. Frame walls with commercial bookshelf girts (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/09/commercial-girts-what-are-they/). Install unfaced fiberglass batt insulation between girts, with a well-sealed 6mil clear visqueen vapor barrier on inside.

Roof – order roof steel with an Integral Condensation Control factory applied (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/). Roof trusses should be ordered with raised heels two inches greater in height than thickness of blown in fiberglass attic insulation (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/raised-heel-trusses/) and attic adequately ventilated with vented soffit panels at eaves and a vented ridge.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Good Morning, Can I just order the plans for a pole barn instead of the full building kit? TANNER in BOWLING GREEN

DEAR TANNER: Thank you for your inquiry.

Hansen Pole Buildings are carefully designed and engineered to exacting and stringent standards. Included with these structural design solutions are some components an average individual cannot just go buy off a shelf at your local lumber dealer or big box store. Due to liability issues with materials specified on plans not being able to be readily acquired by general populace members, our third-party engineers are unable and unwilling to put their seals and signatures on plans where we are not providing components. Even if they were to do so (and you could find parts as specified) we have so much buying power, we are able to provide materials at a price level competitive to anything you would be able to acquire on your own.

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Budget, Professional Engineer, Lumber, Pole Barn Heating, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Planning and tagged insulation, condensation, Ventilation, engineered pole building plans, pole barn heating on April 26, 2021 by admin.

Texas Post Frame Barndominium Insulation

Reader KIMBERLY in LINDEN writes:

“We are building a 52x40x10 post frame home in East Texas. The entire thing will be living space. I have been researching as much as possible on the best way to insulate a post frame home with metal siding and roof. The information is overwhelming and you get a completely different answer depending on who you talk to. I know not to skimp on insulation, but the consensus on most “barndominium” FaceBook groups is that spray foam is the only way to go. I have reservations about that, because it may be a superior way to insulate, but it depends almost exclusively on who is doing the actual foam application. On top of that you need to spend more money on your HVAC system to add the proper ventilation/air exchange.

I want a well insulated home that is specific to the type of building material and location we live in. To me, “not skimping” on insulation doesn’t mean that it has to be the most expensive insulation either.

I also know the insulation world is constantly changing and evolving, but what would your recommendation be to insulate our home in East Texas?

Thank you so much for your time!”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru responds:

Your insulation requirements will vary depending upon where you are in East Texas. Climates zone 1 (closest to Gulf) require R-30 ceilings, R-13 walls. Zone 2 requires ceilings to be R-49 and zone 3 (farthest north) goes to R-20 walls. You can look up you county’s climate zone here: https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IECC2021P1/chapter-3-re-general-requirements#IECC2021P1_RE_Ch03_SecR301. I will cheat for you and tell you Cass County is Climate zone 3A.

For sake of discussion we will assume you have a dead attic space and will be insulating directly above a finished ceiling. I would ventilate your dead attic space at the eave (air intake) and the ridge (air exhaust). Make provisions for preventing condensation on the underside of roof steel by having some sort of a thermal break. My personal preference is by using an Integral Condensation Control (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/). You will want to order roof trusses with raised heels (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/raised-heel-trusses/), so you can get full insulation depth from wall-to-wall with blown in fiberglass. Heel height should be R value of insulation divided by three and add two inches so you can achieve adequate airflow above insulation.

Should you want to condition your attic – delete ventilation, raised heels and the Integral Condensation Control. I would apply closed cell spray foam two inches to the underside of roof steel, then add open cell spray foam to desired R value.

For walls – best results will be from two inches of closed cell sprayed to inside of wall steel, then fill balance of wall cavity with either open cell spray foam, or unfaced batts (ideally stone wool https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/03/roxul-insulation/). You could also use BIBs to fill (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/11/bibs/). Do not place a Weather Resistant Barrier (WRB) under wall steel or a vapor barrier on inside of wall.

As an alternative to spray foam, you can use a WRB between framing and wall steel, then BIBs with an interior vapor barrier or faced batt insulation.

Energy costs are not going to go down, so I would encourage you to err towards more insulation rather than less – and (since most heat loss is upward) invest more into added ceiling insulation than walls.

In warmer, humid climates like yours, your HVAC system should include an Energy Recovery Ventilator (ERV) regardless of what your choice of insulation systems ends up being.

This entry was posted in Steel Roofing & Siding, Ventilation, Pole Barn Homes, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Post Frame Home, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Barndominium and tagged Climate Zone 3A, ridge exhaust, open cell spray foam, stone wool insulation, integral condensation control, dead attic space, eave ventilation, weather resistant barrier, closed cell spray foam, insulation on April 23, 2021 by admin.

Insulation Addition, A Clear Span Monitor, and Post Frame Code

This week the Pole Barn Guru discusses adding insulation to an existing building, building a monitor style building with a large clear span main level, and a building official misinforming a potential client.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I currently have a 30×50 Wick building on some property which I purchased last May. The building is 15 years old. It had a white faced batt insulation rolled out over the roof and wall purlins. The building is heated with a 80000 btu forced air furnace and has a 3.5 ton 16 seer AC unit as well. The building is used as a mancave/shop for piddling on projects. The design has an open ceiling. I would like to add additional insulation at the roof deck level. I have a local insulation contractor who has good reviews come and look at it. He is suggesting adding a 4″ thick x 24″ wide WMP50 batt insulation between the roof purlins. The research I have done suggests to not lay a batt over a batt as you could create an area where moisture cannot pass through. If the new vapor barrier of the WMP50 is sealed correctly would there still be an issue? I’d like to keep the open ceiling design as I currently have a car lift between two of the rafters and need to be above raise the vehicle cab above the bottom of the lower rafter horizontal. This kills the idea of putting in an insulated ceiling thus creating an attic space. Any thoughts on what the contractor wants to do as well as other ideas how to better insulate the roof?

Thanks… DAVE in MARSHALL

DEAR DAVE: You want to avoid having two vapor barriers. Easiest solution would be to poke holes in your existing white facing often enough to not create any two vapor barrier zones, then add your new product, making certain all joints between rolls are sealed.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Is it possible to have a monitor style barn to use the open upper level as a living quarters and not need support legs under to keep the lower shop level open. JOE in PUEBLO

DEAR JOE: It can certainly be done, and there are a few ways to get there.

Here is how we did it for my Sales Manager, Dan, in my past life when I was a post frame building contractor. Dan wanted a 30′ x 50′ monitor style building for a garage/shop and then an office above. We had engineered a clearspan roof/floor truss combination for support of wings and second floor. This system had a double truss every 10 feet. At eight feet from each outside wall, we mounted columns to these trusses to support roof of raised center. Joists we placed for ceilings and floor system. With an 8/12 roof slope, upper level used scissor trusses with a 5/12 interior pitch.

For monitor buildings without as much front to back depth, we can design with parallel chord flat trusses used as girders and bury them in knee walls of raised center portion. This often precludes ability to have windows along upper level sides.

With post frame construction, if you can dream it, chances are good we can design it.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, I am looking at building in Chippewa County, Wisconsin. I absolutely love the idea of doing a Pole Barn House/Attached Garage. The problem is that I cannot get an answer if I can build one in the county. The building inspector has been continually telling me that they cannot be built if the garage is directly attached.

I have attached a pdf of the floor plan for said building
Can you help with this? JEFF in STANLEY

DEAR JEFF: While your pdf did not make it, there is no reason you should not be able to have an attached garage, just as you could with any other structural building system. Building Codes certainly allow for attached garages (drive through any subdivision in our country), with appropriate fire separation between it and living spaces.

If your inspector persists, please ask him or her for a written copy of whatever ordinance this advice is based upon. Chances are good there is not one, and it is based upon some personal opinion. Should documentation actually be produced, please forward to me so I can go do battle for you.

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Insulation, Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Questions, Workshop Buildings, Pole Barn Design, Building Department, Shouse, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Planning, Trusses and tagged building officials, moisture barrier, monitor style buildings, insulation, building codes on April 5, 2021 by admin.

Stamped Plans, Bottom Chord Loads, and Spray Foam Options

This Monday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about engineer stamped plans, hanging sheetrock of OSB from truss bottom chords, and the best choice for spray foam insulation in a post frame building.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Are your drawings engineer stamped to meet local municipality requirements? ERIK in LAS VEGAS

DEAR ERIK: Yes, our structural plans, sealed by our independent third-party engineers are designed to meet or exceed loading requirements for each individual building’s jurisdiction. We have provided several buildings in Clark County, including the giraffe barn at your Lion Habitat Ranch in Henderson. We do always have our clients verify load conditions with their Building Department prior to ordering. This will give you an idea of what will be on form to be completed: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/08/building-department-checklist-part-i/.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can I hang 7/16″ osb or 5/8″ sheetrock from my pole barn style garage with 4′ on center trusses with a 2×4 bottom chord & 2×6 top chord & a 28′ span? I have thought of running 2×4’s perpendicular to the trusses but am concerned about all the weight. Any thoughts or ideas for me? DAVID in HELENA

DEAR DAVID: If your building’s roof trusses have been designed for at least a five psf (pounds per square foot) bottom chord load (often shown as BCDL on engineered truss drawings) then they could support weight of either 7/16″ OSB or 5/8″ sheetrock. Neither product is designed to span greater than two feet, so you would have to add framing between trusses to adequately support.

This circumstance is why all Hansen Pole Buildings prefabricated wood roof trusses spanning 40 feet or less are designed with a minimum BCDL of five psf or more – just an added service for our clients who decide to add a ceiling later on.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have read many, many of your replies pertaining to the multitude of insulation questions to try and find a scientific and experience answer to an insulation quandary my daughter will experience in a matter of days. I am very familiar with & proficient in stick build & the associated vapor & breathing issues in that form of home building. However, the post & frame discipline is different & yet has some similarities in physics. My daughter & son-in-law are already in contact to have 4″-5″ of “open-cell” spray foam for insulation for walls & roof. I completely understand house wrap, condensation etc….my question is this. Should Tyvek be used between the metal sheathing (siding) & the open- cell or not? The trusses are spaced 2ft o.c. & 2×4 purlins are laid flat 2ft. o.c. then standard girt spacing, etc. on walls. I just want to make sure I provide my daughter with the correct answer so as her family can live in their home with the concern. I thank you for your time and expertise. NICK in MORRIS

DEAR NICK: Luckily physics remains same from stick built to post frame!

For walls – my preference would be two inches of closed cell sprayed directly to wall steel, then fill balance of wall cavity with unfaced insulation of your choice. Fiberglass would be least expensive for this, although open cell spray foam or BIBs are options (I have done BIBs personally and think it is great).

For roof – if attic space is to be conditioned and there is no other provision for condensation control, I would start with two inches of closed cell directly to roof steel and then open cell to it to desired R value. If attic space is to be ventilated and insulation placed at ceiling level, if no condensation control do closed cell again, then blow in insulation at ceiling level. This will require adequate eave and ridge ventilation.

This entry was posted in Trusses, Ventilation, Building Interior, Professional Engineer, Insulation, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Questions, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Planning and tagged insulation, BCDL, sealed plans, spray foam, bottom chord dead load, closed cell spray foam, Engineer stamped plans on March 29, 2021 by admin.

Financing, Vapor Barrier, and Boat Storage

This Friday’s daily blog will feature three questions and answers from the Pole Barn Guru. First is a question about financing, followed by a question about a vapor barrier for an add-on lean-to, and then building a quite lengthy boat storage facility.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi there. I’m looking to utilize a VA loan for 10 acres of property in West Texas. However, as a requirement, there must be a livable structure built with electrical and AC.

It was always our intention to build a pole barn or barndominium on the property but with the requirement of having such in place to qualify, we now need to consider doing this as part of the loan process.

So, my question really is, do people typically DIY with these barn kits or do they hire to build? I believe we’ll have to hire to build but I’m not sure who to contact or what is decent pricing for a build outside of the kit. I’m making a basic assumption of a 40 x 40 kit with 12 – 15 tall ceilings and basic foundation. We would convert it as a living space with insulation and electric as well during the process. We do intend on also building two separate living areas along with it in the future and then using the larger area for Entertainment.

Any guidance would be extremely helpful. Thank you! CORY in HURST

DEAR CORY: Obviously you are finding some challenges when it comes to being able to utilize your VA benefits: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/08/va-loans-for-a-pole-barn-residence/

I would say our barndominium clients are pretty much evenly split between those who erect their own shells and those who hire it done. In order to get your best possible appraisal value to cash outlay – DIYing as much as possible will be to your advantage. A fair price to erect your shell is usually about 50% of what your investment is into your building kit.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We are adding a 30×60 lean to shop area to out existing 40×60 insulated pole barn. I have been told a hundred different ways to insulate it, but my biggest concern for tomorrow is I have to make a decision. I pre built all of the walls and they are ready to go up. I am getting so much conflicting advice. We are connecting to the pole barn. (Yes it has been engineered)! Do I need to put a vapor barrier, vapor retardant, or any material against the existing outside wall that will become an inside wall? I have a crew coming over to help carry the walls and stand them up. I do have a couple of other questions, but this is the most pressing.

So my husband is really sleeping as I type this. It is midnight. He works late and has to get up early and I am up trying to research for him. When I read your story about you and your wife it reminded me of my husband and myself. We have worked on a lot of projects together.

Thank you in advance. JOLENE in WICHITA

DEAR JOLEEN: Kudos to you for having an engineered building! Just so much more prudent than not.

If your lean to and existing pole building are both conditioned then your inside wall needs no vapor barrier or retarder. Your new outside walls will need something however what it is will depend upon how you plan upon insulating.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m looking to put in a boat storage facility, it will be 30′ wide by 600′ long and 15′ tall. What do I need to look at? GREG in PERRY

DEAR GREG: Column spacing will depend upon whether you are stacking boats (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/09/boat-storage-pole-barns/) or placing them individually in bays. For 600′ in length, you will need to have interior shearwalls running 30′ direction probably no less than every 120 feet along your length. One of our Building Designers will be reaching out to you Monday to further discuss your needs and best design.

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Columns, Sheds, Boat Storage, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Constructing a Pole Building and tagged boat storage, pole barn financing, insulation, vapor barrier on March 26, 2021 by admin.

PermaColumns, Pole Barn Planning, and Insulating a Roof

This Monday the Pole Barn Guru discusses the use of PermaColumns, planning of a pole barn in Florida, and the best solution for a building without roof or exterior wall weather resistant barriers.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am having a pole building put up with engineered laminated columns. The contractor is pushing a “Perma Column” made up of concrete and welded rebar that goes in the ground, about 5′ long surrounded by more concrete, and the laminated columns are bolted on top through 1/4″ steel brackets. My question is, are these laminated columns OK to go directly into the ground, with concrete, or is it important to keep them out of the ground as these Perma Columns would do? TIM in MEDICAL LAKE

DEAR TIM: Back in my post frame building contractor days we built many a building in and around Medical Lake.

Hopefully those columns are true glu-laminated columns, as opposed to nailed together. Most of these are designed specifically for post frame construction and have their lower six or more feet pressure preservative treated for structural in ground use. If this is your case, there is no issue with their lower end being embedded directly in ground (reducing costs and increasing ease of construction). While precast Permacolumns would keep columns out of ground, there is a better option – https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/04/perma-column-price-advantage/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello. We are planning to build a pole barn home in Arcadia, Florida. We were looking into the 40 x 60 with 2 leans on the sides. However, we cannot find someone who specializes in these constructions and can tell us how to start, what type of foundation is needed since it’s a pole barn. Do you do the entire project or you just supply the kit? Do you have contractors you work with as far as installation? Please get back to me asap. ANA MARIA in NAPLES

DEAR ANA MARIA: Well, you have reached out to where you should be, as Hansen Pole Buildings specializes in post frame homes (barndominiums and shouses).

Links in this article will get you through budgeting, financing, finding property, room design and floor plans: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/10/show-me-your-barndominium-plans-please/.

Post frame foundations can be as simple as properly pressure preservative treated columns embedded in ground, to columns mounted to engineered brackets or even continuous footings and foundations.

Our buildings are designed for the average physically capable person who can and will read instructions to successfully construct their own beautiful buildings (and many of our clients do DIY). Our buildings come with full 24” x 36” blueprints detailing the location and attachment of every piece, a 500 page fully illustrated step-by-step installation manual, as well as unlimited technical support from people who have actually built buildings. For those without the time or inclination, we have an extensive independent Builder Network covering the contiguous 48 states. We can assist you in getting erection labor pricing as well as introducing you to potential builders. We would appreciate the opportunity to participate in your new home. Please email your building plans, site address and best contact number to caleb@hansenpolebuildings.com or dial (866)200-9657 .

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Have a 30×42 pole shed at my new home that I purchased. It is partitioned into 2 parts, a back room (30×12) and front (30×30). The back room is finished off with OSB on the walls, in between the horizontal 2×6 purlins there is 1.5″ unfaced rigid foam board (expanded polystyrene I believe) and on the ceiling it appears that it is just a rock wool type insulation between the purlins and a 6 mil plastic vapor barrier stapled to the purlins along the bottoms all the way around the room. There is crosses cut into it every so often (assuming for a vent). The room is heated by a Propane wall heater and it gets Very warm and holds heat very well even with it being open to the 16 ft. peak. This room has been like that for 25+ years and it shows no signs of condensation, rust, rot, or anything for that matter. The front section (30×30) has 1.5″ RTech faced rigid foam boards between the horizontal girts with the foil sides facing into the shop & seams spray foamed etc. The 30×30 room will be heated with a vented 75k BTU unit heater that is also run off of LP. Side note- The building has no WRB between the steel and “studs” on the walls or roof. My question is how can the roof be insulated without the use of spray foam or removing the metal and wrapping it. I am looking for all the feasible options for this project, thank you. JACKSON in COLEMAN

DEAR JACKSON: Providing your building’s trusses are designed to support weight of a ceiling and any non-conditioned dead attic space above can be adequately vented, your best bet is to install a ceiling (my preference would be 5/8″ Type X gypsum wall board) and blow in fiberglass insulation. This will be your most cost effective alternative in materials and labor and will result in a minimum amount of space to be heated.

This entry was posted in Professional Engineer, Columns, Insulation, Pole Barn Design, Barndominium, Constructing a Pole Building, Shouse, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Structure, Ventilation, Building Interior and tagged weather resistant barrier, glulaminated column, permacolumn, insulation, pole barn planning on March 15, 2021 by admin.

Hemp Based Barndominium Insulation

I try to keep my eyes open for new products available for post frame barndominium construction. Hemp based insulation might be of interest to some.

Disclaimer: I have never used this product and it appears to currently be a challenge to source it.

Hempitecture, based in Ketchum, Idaho, in conjunction with their material processing and manufacturing partners, is proud to offer a product never before United States’ commercially available: a hemp fiber based insulation product called HempWool.

HempWool is an environmentally friendly insulation product. It can be used in your home or commercial building project. HempWool is composed of 92% industrial hemp fiber, specifically processed as a component for HempWool. HempWool meets Class A fire requirements, is non-toxic, and contributes to a healthy home.

Why not use FiberGlass or similar products when insulating your new barndominium? Ask any builder or insulation installer if they like working with fiberglass. Without a doubt, most will tell you working with fiberglass is an unpleasant experience. This is because fibers comprising fiberglass insulation are abrasive. They irritate skin, leaving itchy rashes if skin comes in contact. Breathing fiberglass into your lungs is believed to be cancer-causing. Despite this, fiberglass remains a primary choice for insulating barndominiums because it is cheap and easy to work with.

Healthy homes are more important than ever. We’re spending a lot of time indoors (especially in 2020), and materials surrounding us matter. Why should we wrap our homes in a blanket of material known to cause health complications, and can’t even be handled without covering all of your skin? HempWool changes all of this with a healthy, non-abrasive approach to insulation.

HempWool can be handled without gloves and with skin exposed because it is non-abrasive. Hemp fiber itself is highly absorbent, leading to one of HempWool’s greatest attributes; vapor permeability. Hempitecture HempWool insulation is a vapor permeable material; moisture can move through HempWool and be adsorbed by its fibers, with no threat of degradation or mold to itself. This all translates to thermal comfort; HempWool makes your barndominium feel better.

Not only will HempWool make your home feel better, it will make it perform better. At R3.7/inch, HempWool has insulation properties rivaling fiberglass and other conventional insulation materials. Various depths of HempWool are suited to meet your structural framing members, i.e: 2×4 or 2×6 studs. Whether you’re framing 24″ OC or 16″ OC, HempWool is cut to fit with nothing but pressure. HempWool will hold itself in place because it’s batts spring-like quality.

Best I can gather on price, currently it runs about double what fiberglass insulations cost. If anyone has used these products, I am interested in your feedback. some.

Disclaimer: I have never used this product and it appears to currently be a challenge to source it.

This entry was posted in Pole Building Comparisons, Pole Barn Planning, Budget, Pole Barn Homes, Post Frame Home, Barndominium, Shouse, Insulation and tagged hemp fiber, insulation, fiberglass, barndominium, HempWool on January 5, 2021 by admin.

Fun With a Cheap Steel Truss Pole Building

Most of our country is unfamiliar with low budget steel truss pole barns produced and sold primarily in Southeastern states. There is a reason these are prevalent where there is no snow – just in case you were wondering.

Disclaimer, I have no issues at all with prefabricated light gauge steel trusses, provided they have been manufactured to engineer sealed drawings, specific to loading conditions where they will be put into use. AND if they are fabricated by a certified welder (rarely occurs).

Reader KEVIN in COLUMBIA writes:

“Hi Guru,

I recently purchased a home and the property included a 32×84 Pole barn. The barn was never dried in and was barely completed by the previous owner. However, everything is solid, square and plum; with the exception of a few pieces of steel on the roof that were never installed, it is a solid structure. Immediately after purchasing the home I had a monolithic slab poured under half of the structure that will become the foundation for the home of my new shop. I am quite comfortable with carpentry, but not so much with insulation. How do I go about condensation proofing the roof? I really do not want to pull the existing roof panels off to lay a vapor barrier over the purlins. My intention is to have a well ventilated attic, insulate the walls, and blow in insulation over the ceiling. I have heard of some people installing foam board to the exposed steel. Spray foam is an option, but one that is out of my price range for the moment. I have attached some images for your inspection. The 3D CAD models should provide a better illustration of what is under the roof. I look forward to your response.”

Kevin is now experiencing joys associated with buildings sold ‘on the cheap’ – with barely enough materials to get a roof on with a minimal budget. It would have been so simple for this building to have been originally sold and erected with provisions to control roof condensation. Either a Reflective Radiant Barrier (RRB) or an Integral Condensation Control (ICC) would have easily avoided your current situation.

This style of building does not lend itself well to installation of a ceiling (there are no clips along truss bottom chords to accept ceiling joists). My educated guess is these trusses are not designed to support weight of a ceiling. With 2×6 purlins spanning 12 feet, they are sadly not stiff enough to keep drywall joints from cracking – so you are going to be faced with lots of limitations.

Foam board might be a solution, however you would need to have each panel 100% air sealed between purlins in order to do so. Chances of success range close to zero. You are left with two choices – remove roof steel, install a RRB and reinstall roofing or two inches of closed cell spray foam (roughly $5700). Hopefully you have poured your slab on grade over a well-sealed vapor barrier, if not – use a sealant on top of it (not as effective, but better than nothing).

This entry was posted in Trusses, Ventilation, Insulation, Budget, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Building Comparisons, Pole Building How To Guides and tagged attic, foam board, steel truss, reflective radiant barrier, steel truss pole barn, insulation, monolithic slab, condensation, monolithic concrete slab, blow in insulation on December 18, 2020 by admin.

Nanoo Nanoo

Nanoo Nanoo

In today’s riveting episode of Pole Barn Guru blogs we are actually going to discuss nanograms, not Robin Williams’ character Mork’s salutation from a late 70’s sitcom.

Reader KEN from INDIAN RIVER didn’t plan his pole (post frame) building with a WRB (Weather Resistant Barrier like Tyvek) and now writes:

“Mr. Pole Building Guru. I installed a 30 x 56 pole building without Tyvek under metal I now want to insulate With 1.5″ foam board between purlin then insulate with unfaced fiberglass then install OSB for walls. I don’t want to create two vapor barriers which I think the foam would create one then the OSB. not quite sure how to insulate for best results any suggestions?”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru responds:

Provided you are able to completely air seal your foam boards between wall girts, they may act as an effective vapor barrier. Personally I would opt for two inches of closed cell spray foam rather than foam boards. In either case, this means you need to dry your wall to the inside.

Whether or not a material qualifies as a vapor barrier is determined by how much moisture passes through it, and it is given a rating. Any material allowing less than 60NG (nanograms) of moisture to pass through under specific conditions, is considered a type nine residential vapor barrier. A nanogram happens to be fairly small – it is one billionth of a gram!

Including a vapor control measure on your wall insulation’s warm side insulation is essential for preventing moisture movement through walls in winter, and ensuing damage coming with it. In summer however, with a combination of hot, humid days and air-conditioned, dry interiors, vapor drive reverses and can force moist air inwards through your insulation where it can condense on a cold and impermeable vapor barrier.

Ideally we’d have no vapor barrier in summer; but short of this we should at least have one allowing as much drying to interior as possible without sacrificing its winter performance. So the close your vapor barrier is to 60NG, the better. For context it should be noted polyethylene (Visqueen) is rated at 3.4NG.

Rated at 44NG (2/3rds of a perm), 7/16 inch OSB sheathing can be a reasonably good vapor barrier, however you may want to consider instead using 3/8″ CDX plywood as it has a 57 NG rating. Do not seal it (paint is a seal) or tape seams and your wall is probably okay.

P.S. You long time readers have probably been wondering how I would incorporate “Nanoo Nanoo” into an article. Well, now you know!

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Design, About The Pole Barn Guru, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Ventilation, Building Interior and tagged CDX plywood, nanogram, vapor control, insulation, vapor barrier, condensation on December 15, 2020 by admin.

Textrafine Insulation, New Steel on Old Steel, and a Residential Conversion

This Monday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about wall insulation and moisture barrier choices, New Steel on top of old steel, and advice on how to find an engineer to convert an existing shop into a residence.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I wrapped my post frame with double bubble with silver foil on both sides and then put my metal on, going to use Textrafine unfaced insulation and then steel lining walls. Do you see a problem with this? CHARLES in MONROEVILLE

DEAR CHARLES: I would normally have recommended use of a Weather Resistant Barrier (Tyvek or similar) between framing and siding in order to allow walls to dry to outside. Assuming your radiant reflective barrier is properly sealed, you will want to make certain your wall system can exhaust any moisture (dry) to building interior and make provisions to exhaust excess moisture.

For those who are unfamiliar with Textrafine®, here is some extended reading: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/01/insulation-8/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My pole building was built in the 1950’s with 2-1/2″ galvanized ribbed metal sheeting nailed on with leaded 1-1/2 screw nails which is now somewhat leaking. I can find that profile metal from RP Lumber. Can I directly screw new metal onto existing metal. I intend to insulate and finish the inside of building. Will the two metals together cause any problems such as condensation? RICHARD in PEKIN

DEAR RICHARD: Due to protruding nails from your existing roof, I would not recommend trying to apply new roofing directly over your old roofing. You would be far ahead to remove your old roofing, this would also allow for an effective condensation control to be placed between framing and roofing. You could also go to an entirely different roofing profile, if desired.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have an existing pole building with a concrete floor. I wanted to turn it into a living space. I called my local planning/permitting dept. the person that is head of area planning said I can do this but only if I have it certified by an engineer. She did add in that she had no idea who would do this kind of work but she thinks it would be expensive. I can’t figure out what I am too certify. The building or my drawings nor can I locate an engineer in my area. I have been told that there are a lot of buildings here that have been converted to a home I just can’t find anyone who has done so it is difficult to get any information. You would think planning could guide me but they don’t have the knowledge so I’m reaching out to anyone who has went through this in the state of Indiana and may know the laws. Thanks in advance. KIM in METAMORA

DEAR KIM: Most existing pole buildings are not structurally adequate for residential purposes, unless they were specifically designed and engineered for R-3 (residential) use. Your Building Official is prudent in requiring you to have a Registered Professional Engineer review your building for structural adequacy. This engineer can also advise you of any non-conforming points, as well as how to resolve them.

A good source of how to find an experienced post frame engineer is through NFBA’s website (NFBA is National Frame Building Association) directory: https://associationdatabase.com/aws/NFBA/pt/sp/directory

This entry was posted in Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Planning, Ventilation, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Homes, Insulation, Shouse, Pole Barn Questions and tagged conversion to home, insulation, steel roof, post frame house, reflective radiant barrier, textrafine on November 30, 2020 by admin.

Seal Walls, Fill for Compaction, and Condensation Control

Let’s close out the week with another installment of Ask the Pole Barn Guru! First up is a resolution to seal up a building, followed by assistance with compacted fill, and finally an alternative to spray foam to control condensation.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I purchased a pole building from you last year and there was an error that I wanted an insulated building. So I will be insulating this myself. What keeps all the drafts and bugs out at the roof eve and lower edge of side panels? I am doing house wrap on the exterior walls. MARK in MOUNT VERNON

DEAR MARK: Communication – we as humans do so much of it and all too often do not fully convey our intentions. I am just as guilty as any other person, so do not feel like you are alone in this. This is one reason we strive to do everything in writing, so both parties are clear on each other’s expectations.

Also, successful construction is not measured by how perfect things went initially, but rather by how challenges are solved to arrive at a great end result.

Your roof eaves should be sealed with inside closures, provided with your building package, to install between fascia board and roof steel, so should not be an issue there. If you have not yet installed siding, same inside closures can be placed at bottom of walls, on top of your Weather Resistant Barrier to keep any little critters from entering steel high ribs in your 1/4 inch space between base trim flat and bottom edge of wall panels.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’ve worked with a Hansen Building Designer, ordered my building, and materials will start arriving in two weeks. Looking forward to it, but also a little bit ‘trepidated,’ as it’s my first post-frame build (I completely remuddled a 100 year old farm house at our last place, so that’s what I have for previous experience).

My question has to do with the compacted fill that goes onto my cleared site after the poles are concreted in. Is crusher run gravel appropriate, or is a different type of gravel recommended for better drainage (I’m not familiar with the options, so please be specific if so)?

Also, please see the attached photo of the cleared site along with a drawing I created based on what I *think* are the correct dimensions based on reading the Construction Manual and a number of your blog posts. Note that I’m planning on a 5″ thick concrete floor, and have indicated same in the drawing at exactly 5″. ED in SUMMERTOWN

DEAR ED: Awesome drawing! You should have no difficulties in assembling your own beautiful building, as I can tell you are already reading directions!

Crusher run should be adequate for your sub-base. Most important is to get any clay removed from within upper levels of your grade and to have good compaction. Top two to six inches of your fill should be clean and drained sand or sandy gravel, again well compacted.

Photos: https://hansenpolebuildings.com/uploads/polebarnquestions/7bea6f6c3d75e192515b8bd12303c72c.jpg
https://hansenpolebuildings.com/uploads/polebarnquestions/5ccc84929f35cf3f29da7f8849defaa1.jpeg

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: If not spray foam on the underside of metal roof then I saw you recommend reflective siding insulation. Would that suffice in lieu of spray foam?

DYLAN in BEDFORD

DEAR DYLAN: My first alternate choice would be to use an I.C.C. (Integral Condensation Control) https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/ easy to install and no seams to worry about. Next choice would be a Reflective Radiant Barrier – we have it in six foot wide rolls with an adhesive pull strip to seal joints. Contact Materials@HansenPoleBuildings.com for delivered pricing (rolls are 128′ long).

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Concrete, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Planning and tagged insulation, A1V, soil compaction, closure strips, A1V reflective radiant barrier, condensation barrier on October 16, 2020 by admin.

Insulation, Spray Foam Issues, and Floor Plans

Lets close out the week with a fifth installment of The Pole Barn Guru. Today he’ll answer questions about the best insulation for a building with steel roofing over a vapor barrier over plywood, potential issues installing spray foam, and a request for a floor plan example– we now have a third party provider of interior floor plans!

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My barn has metal roofing over a vapor barrier over plywood. How can I best insulate the ceiling if I want to keep the slope and not enclose it into an attic space? DARCY in TURNER

DEAR DARCY: Closed cell spray foam insulation between your purlins is really your only choice, as any other method requires venting from eave to ridge above the insulation layer. You can expect somewhere close to R-7 per inch. First inch should be roughly $1.30 per square foot, with 70 cents per square foot for each additional inch.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am thinking of spray foaming my steel pole building, have you heard of any issues? Thanks TOM in LINO LAKES

DEAR TOM: In a not too long ago addition to our home, as well as Hansen Pole Buildings’ Productions Building warehouse, we applied closed cell spray foam directly to steel panels with excellent results. You can read more here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/04/spray-foam-insulation-3/. You do have to protect interior spray foam surfaces from flame and make sure your installer is experienced and well trained to avoid potential issues with stink from a poor installation.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Do you have a floor plan example for model #08-0602 LORRIE in CLARKSDALE

DEAR LORRIE: We provide only the structural portion of most of our buildings, so do not have a floor plan for this particular building. You can have a floor plan custom designed for this particular building while best fitting your wants and needs via this link: http://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/post-frame-floor-plans/?fbclid=IwAR2ta5IFSxrltv5eAyBVmg-JUsoPfy9hbWtP86svOTPfG1q5pGmfhA7yd5Q

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Alternate Siding, Building Interior, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Heating, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Planning and tagged floor plans, custom design, spray foam safety, insulation, spray foam on September 25, 2020 by admin.

Double Doors, Insulation, and an Alaska Project?

We’ll continue this week with a third day of Bonus PBG’s! Today Mike take care of reader questions about adding “double doors” to the high side of a lean to, insulation to building in Climate Zone 4A with R-49, and the feasibility of building in Alaska.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi Mike, I am looking to build a lean-to that 20’x7.5’. I’m wanting to put 12’ Double doors on the high side. How would I go about framing in a door for that or are there any special requirements for that big of a door with that wide of a roof? ALISSA in GROVE CITY

DEAR ALISSA: We will have your building engineered to properly structurally support your door and door opening given wind and snow loads at your particular building site. All of this information will be included on your engineered blue prints.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, I am going to build a post frame building with a metal roof, with OSB and synthetic roof felt. What would you recommend to insulate the underside of the OSB with? They are scissor trusses with a cathedral ceiling. The walls will be OSB and wrapped with house wrap so, looking what to insulate them with too. Please help. Thanks, JEREMY in CLARKSVILLE

DEAR JEREMY: Please keep in mind, you cannot screw steel roofing down to OSB, you will still need to have purlins. You are in Climate Zone 4A so R-49 is required for attic insulation. Order your trusses with an 18″ raised heel and blow in 16″ of fiberglass or cellulose insulation. Vent your eaves and ridge. For walls, a minimum R-20 is required. Use a minimum of 2×6 bookshelf style girts and BIBs insulation (ideally) or unfaced batts, with a well-sealed 6mil visqueen vapor barrier on the inside.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Looking to build a barndominium in Alaska. Is that feasible and if so are there any builders? LAUREL in ST. CLOUD

DEAR LAUREL: We have provided numerous fully engineered post frame buildings to clients in Alaska, however we are fairly certain they all provided their own labor to assemble (DIY). Typically we have delivered all materials to Port of Seattle docks and our clients have secured barge/container space for transport to Alaska. We have also had clients schedule flat bed trucks to pickup their buildings from our shipping locations in Washington, however this would be a much more rare circumstance.

There are builders from the lower 48 states who would travel to Alaska to build, obviously for the right price.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Heating, Insulation, Barndominium, Pole Barn Questions, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Building Doors, Ventilation, Professional Engineer, Sheds, Pole Barn Homes and tagged double doors, R-49, Proper insulation, insulation, Alaska building on September 24, 2020 by admin.

Tyvek Weather Barrier, Overhead Door Sizes, and Slab Insulation

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers questions about use of Tyvek weather barrier, best size for overhead garage doors, and insulation for a slab.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi, I was thinking of putting up a metal clad pole building and insulating it with R28 batt. Wondering your thoughts on adding Tyvek to the outside to help protect against the weather? Not sure if the cost is worth it? Most of the builders around here don’t recommend it. DOUG in REGINA

DEAR DOUG: Your local builders probably do not recommend use of a Weather Resistant Barrier (WRB) in walls because they fear increasing of prices on their quotes – they are selling low price, rather than best value for their clients.

If you are not going to flash and batt (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/01/flash-and-batt-insulating-barndominium-walls/) your walls, then use of a WRB is an excellent choice as it allows any moisture from within your insulation cavity to escape outward. Use unfaced batts and then cover interior of your walls with well-sealed 6mil clear visqueen prior to an interior finish.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m fixin to build a barn, 40×40 12’ walls with 3 overhead doors. Going to put a lift in it. Have any suggestions on door size and spacing. I live in all sand so for my post I’m buying sono tubes so it won’t cave in on me. What size sono tubes? Planning on 6” concrete floor with thickened slab where hoist goes. Anything I’m forgetting? ANDREW

DEAR ANDREW: You actually probably need at least a 12′ ceiling for a lift. I always recommend at least 3′ from a wall and 3′ in between (it avoids door dings). With a 40′ wall – this will not quite work out (in my ideal world). I like 10′ wide doors, as they keep mirrors on much better. I also like 8′ tall doors, hardly any more than 7′ and gives room for racks, most lifts, etc.

In summary I would do (2) 10′ x 8′ (1) 10’x10′ (might as well take advantage of the ceiling height. Go 3′ from corners and 2′ in between.

Our third-party engineer will determine depth and diameter of sonotubes and they will be called out on your sealed plans.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi Mike, I am working on building a post frame home in Eastern Oregon. Looking for ideas on slab insulation detail at perimeter edge. The home will not have radiant floor heat.

I am having trouble deciding on how to insulate the perimeter slab. Oregon requires minimum R-15 for slab edge insulation. Ideally I would prefer to see concrete at exterior perimeter vs treated grade board that’s visible, however the treated grade board seems to be most cost effective in design. TRENT in WALLA WALLA

DEAR TRENT: I had just recently done this for one of our clients and we will be adding it to our construction manual. This hides your splash plank (grade board). Thicknesses and dimensions can be found here (https://www.huduser.gov/publications/pdf/fpsfguide.pdf Table 2, Page 6). Even though you are not using radiant heat, I would run Pex-Al-Pex tubes in my floor and do under slab insulation. It is a huge selling point and gives you flexibility to add radiant floor heat easily at a later date.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Homes, Overhead Doors, Post Frame Home, Insulation and tagged insulation, housewrap, tyvek, overhead garage doors, Weather barrier, foundation insulation on August 10, 2020 by admin.

Attic Venting, Moisture Reduction, and a Vapor Barrier

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about ventilation for an attic space, what type of insulation to use for the reduction or elimination of moisture, and to place a vapor barrier under the concrete slab.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I know you have answered a few questions regarding attic venting so I apologize if this is a repeat. I am looking at finishing the ceiling in my 24′ x 48′ pole barn with thin gage interior steel and blowing in insulation. I currently only have soffit on one gable end and I can see daylight coming in from under the trim on the other end. According to some other threads I have read, I need 3.84 sq. ft. of venting area. The gable end soffit is approximately 25 sq ft but I don’t know how much of that is free venting area. Do you count the whole 25 sq. ft? Also, any recommendations for what to do on the other end? Is the daylight that I can see coming in under the trim good enough? BRYCE in ZIMMERMAN

DEAR BRYCE: By Code you are unable to count any contribution from gable end soffits and areas between overhanging end purlins should be blocked solid to prevent airflow (and to properly create a load path to transfer shear forces from roof to ground). A construction flaw (such as daylight coming in under trim, probably should be fixed, rather than counted. By Code requirement is 3.84 square feet or 552.96 square inches of net free ventilating area located in upper 1/2 of your building’s attic space. My recommendation would be to install gable vents sufficient to provide airflow requirements.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What type of insulation do I need to keep out moisture in my residential building? JACLYN in WHITEHALL

DEAR JACLYN: Here is my ultimate guide to post frame building insulation https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/11/post-frame-building-insulation/

More important is removing sources of moisture https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/10/pole-barn-moisture-issues/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have nearly completed my DIY Hansen Building and am preparing to pour the slab. Is there a way to search the blog posts for my questions? I am wondering if I should install a vapor barrier under the concrete or wait and seal it after? Is 1/2″ rebar recommended? Should I use an 18in grid or can I go on the cheap and get away with 2ft? Planning on a 5 inch slab. NICK in GLIDDEN

DEAR NICK: Good to hear from you, we are looking forward to seeing photos of your new building!

You should install a well-sealed vapor barrier under your slab while Code requirement is 6mil, however 15mil is far less likely to be damaged during a pour. Run vapor barrier up sides and onto top of 2×8 splash planks Overlap seams by at least 6″ and tape. Most often we see 1/2″ rebar on a 16″ grid.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Building Overhangs, Ventilation, Concrete and tagged insulation, vapor barrier, gable vents, attic venting, concrete vapor barrier on July 6, 2020 by admin.

Bonus Round 2– Backfill Compaction, Blueprints, and Insulation

Today’s BONUS Round of PBG discusses backfill compaction, finding an engineer to draw blueprints for a building of reclaimed wood, and the ins and outs of insulation.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have 18” diameter x 60” deep pits for 6×6 posts. My backfill material and method is ¾”less gravel with every 8” compacted. But how to compact inside of pit with 6×6 post located center of pit. HIRO in TUMWATER

DEAR HIRO: Tamp soil firmly every six inches of fill depth, or less, to achieve a minimum 2000 psf (pounds per square foot) compaction. To compact properly, use a hand operated 4×4 eight feet in length raising it four feet and dropping four or more times on each four inch square area. Compaction proof: when a 2×4 butt end will not penetrate over 1/8” under 170# of pressure.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am planning a post and beam self build. I do not want to use a kit. This will be a totally reclaimed wood build I need BLUEPRINTS not a floor plan. I have my basic floor plan. Located in 40353. Any suggestions for who can do this for me at an affordable price? DEE in MY STERLING

DEAR DEE: For engineered blueprints in Kentucky please try reaching out to Patrick McGuire, PE SE in Boston, KY. (574)367-8305 www.patmcguirepe.com.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am planning to build a 40 x 60 pole barn, my plan is to insulate it over time with metal panels on ceiling with blown insulation and batts on walls. My question is would bubble wrap or double bubble under roof panels and house wrap on walls be the best way to go for construction of building? (It was suggested to me to use OSB under roof but that seems like it would add a lot of cost if not needed) ROBERT in TIPP CITY

DEAR ROBERT: Thank you for reaching out to me. Here is my Ultimate Guide to Post Frame Building Insulation https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/11/post-frame-building-insulation/

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Planning, Ventilation, Rebuilding Structures, Insulation and tagged insulation, blueprints, engineered design, backfill, compaction on June 19, 2020 by admin.

Slab or Crawl, Insulation, and Building by a Leach Field

This Monday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about building on a slab or with a crawl space, insulation for a shop, and if a person is able to build near a leach field.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I appreciate the building technology used when building a residential pole barn. I am not yet convinced about a slab floor. Although radiant heat is a plus I have two concerns. 1st I’m not sure of the impact when walking on concrete and what is done about air conditioning the building. Have you seen pole framing on a stem wall crawl space deck. Thanks. JOHN in SUMMERSVILLE

DEAR JOHN: Although our own shouse has geothermal radiant floor heating and cooling (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2016/12/modern-post-frame-buildings-geothermal/) I tend to agree with you about what surface I would like to live upon. If I had to stand on concrete for very long, my knees would be screaming at me. We have provided many post frame buildings built over crawl spaces, with most using embedded columns and attaching raised wood floor supports to them. This is far more cost effective than pouring a stemwall (we have had clients go this route as well). For extended reading please see https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/03/slab-on-grade-or-crawl-space/.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m working with Greg Lovell on a building design. Pole barn 30 x 48 x 10 will be walled of to two 24 X 30 shop areas.

My question is on insulation, I’ve read you recommend a ceiling and insulating above that with a vented ridge.

So… if this is not going to be a building I heat 24/7 and never cool. Can I get by with reflectix under the metal roofing and insulating between the purlins with unfaced insulation, if I’m only going to heat it when I’m in it during the winter (heat with a wood stove).

Your post says if I do it this way I need to construct an air gap between the purlins and the roofing material, given the above scenario do I need this air gap if I only heat it a few times a week during the day? Obviously if I do need the air gap the ceiling would be a better way to go. LEE in IDAHO FALLS

DEAR LEE: Code does require airflow above insulation from eave to ridge with this scenario. An option might be to use two inches of closed cell spray foam insulation applied directly to roof steel underside. This would eliminate a need for a Reflective Radiant Barrier as well as ventilation above it. Closed cell spray foam should run roughly two dollars per square foot of roof surface and provide about R-13.

Advantage of a ceiling with insulation blown in is you only heat area below ceiling. Should you or some future user decide to climate control, this would provide a big start.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can you build a pole barn at the bottom of a leach field? TRACE in JAMUL

DEAR TRACE: Yes you can. Typically most jurisdictions require any non-full foundation buildings to be at least 10 feet from any leach line. Consult with your local Health Department for requirements for your jurisdiction.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Planning, Ventilation, Concrete, Pole Barn Heating and tagged insulation, spray foam, crawl space, Slab floor, building by leach field on May 25, 2020 by admin.

A Garage Apartment, A Moisture Problem, and Insulating a Ceiling

Today’s Pole Barn Guru answers questions about building a garage apartment aka a “Shouse,” how to address a moisture problem, and the best way to add insulation to a ceiling.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can I design a garage apartment pole barn? JAY in HINTSVILLE

DEAR JAY: You may not have this ability however we have experts who can assist you. To develop a workable custom floor plan, designed specifically to meet your wants, needs and budget please use this link: http://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/post-frame-floor-plans/?fbclid=IwAR2ta5IFSxrltv5eAyBVmg-JUsoPfy9hbWtP86svOTPfG1q5pGmfhA7yd5Q

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Live in the Midwest, have a 54 x 36 pole barn well insulated, walls, and ceilings. When it rains a lot I have a moisture problem, My building is approx. 1950 Sq. Ft. I found a dehumidifier that covers 3,000 sq. ft. I was thinking about putting one in the pole barn, it can run continuous if I put a hole in the side, for a drain, and let it drain out, just leave it running on its own as it needs to. Is this Ok to do to solve my issue? RON

DEAR RON: A dehumidifier may resolve your building’s symptoms, however not its problem. As this is a function of rain, I am led to believe you need to eliminate or reduce your moisture source. If your building does not have a vapor barrier under your concrete floor, seal top of floor. If you do not have rain gutters install them and ensure runoff is directed well away from building. Make sure ground outside of building is sloped away at least 5% for 10 or more feet.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a 32X46X15 pole barn with purlins attached to the outside of the 6×6 beams. The barn has soffits and a vented ridge cap and is set up for a ceiling. I have since decided to keep the rafters exposed and have questions about sealing up the soffits and ridge cap but leaving several small openings in the ridge cap to allow for humidity to escape.

How much should I leave open on the ridge cap and should I totally seal off the soffits? Will it be ok to leave the beans and rafters exposed, putting a vapor barrier in between the beams and the rafters?

What are your thoughts on 2in foam with no vapor barrier glued directly to the metal in between the purlins every 2feet? Then another 2in foam board with a vapor barrier placed on top of that screwed to purlins and can spray foam the edges and gaps? Thanks for all your help! MARK in VALPARAISO

DEAR MARK: My response is with a thought you are trying to climate control your building to some extent. Your proposal to use two inch-thick foam insulation board sounds to be highly labor intensive as well as being fraught with challenges in trying to achieve a complete air seal. Any air gaps would allow for warm moist air from within your building to not only condense against your building’s steel cladding, but also to remain trapped there, potentially being a cause of premature degradation of steel panels.

I would recommend you look towards closed cell spray foam as a solution for both insulation as well as condensation control. You will want to completely seal both eave and ridge then have at least a two inch thick layer of closed cell foam sprayed on interior face of roofing and siding. A mechanical dehumidifier should be used to control relative humidity with your building.

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Pole Barn Apartments, Shouse, Insulation, Shouse, Pole Barn Questions and tagged insulation, condensation, spray foam, foam boards, moisture, shouse, garage apartment on May 4, 2020 by admin.

Insulating an Existing Post Frame Building Attic

We are in an era where climate control of brand new post frame buildings is extremely common. It is also much easier to insulate (or plan for it) at time of construction, rather than having to go back and do it afterwards.

For new post frame buildings, here is my Ultimate Guide to Post Frame Building Insulation: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/11/post-frame-building-insulation/.

Loyal reader DAMON in SPOKANE is fortunate to have some parts of his existing post frame shop made easy for retrofit insulation. He writes:

“Hi,

First I want to say I love your web site, the information I’ve been reading is invaluable! I am located in Spokane County. I have a 24x24x10 post frame garage that was here when I purchased the house. The walls have commercial girts R19 insulation. I would like to heat this garage and use it as a woodworking shop. Right now the ceiling is open and there is no insulation. The roof is sheeted with OSB, then felt then steel roofing panels. There is no ventilation or overhangs to install soffit vents. The roof has 4:12 pitch.

I am considering one of two options. The first is to spray foam under the roof decking with closed cell foam, about 2″ which would give me about an R14. This would mean I would have to heat a larger air volume all the way up to the roof. Is this an effective method? Will the closed cell foam seal everything and hold the warm air in efficiently? I supposed I could install a couple of slow turning ceiling fans to push the warm air back down.

The second alternative is to add a ceiling. I was able to confirm that the garage was built with bottom load trusses. I could install joists and an osb ceiling and then go with a blown in insulation, maybe R38. Because there is no ventilation I was thinking of adding large appropriately sized gable vents to provide the ventilation since I do not have soffit vents nor a ridge vent.

Of the two options, is one a better consideration than the other? I know you’re probably pretty busy, I appreciate any time you have to help me with my decision.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru responds:
Thank you very much for your kind words, hopefully you have been entertained as well as informed!

As your building was built with trusses designed to support a ceiling, I would recommend you pursue this route. You would need to add gable end vents in the upper half of each gable with a net free ventilation area of at least 139 square inches per end. Please keep in mind this is not vent dimension, but net free area only.

Your building’s roof trusses probably do not have raised “energy heels” so it would be most practical to use closed cell spray foam insulation along two feet closest to each eave sidewall (applied to top side of ceiling finish). I would recommend you blow a minimum of R-49 across the balance of the attic area as this will meet minimum recommended attic insulation levels from www.energystar.gov. Your spray foam applicator can make recommendations for the thickness of his or her product.

Also, please consider using 5/8″ Type X sheetrock for your ceiling. It will be less expensive than OSB and provides some degree of fire resistance.

This entry was posted in Building Interior, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Ventilation and tagged ridge vent, Sheetrock, soffit vents, closed cell spray foam, roof decking, gable end vents, type X sheetrock, insulation on April 2, 2020 by admin.

Should My Barndominium Have a Vapor Barrier?

Should My Barndominium Ceiling Have a Vapor Barrier?

With barndominiums, shouses (shop/house) and post frame homes becoming immensely popular, I have been learning more than I ever thought I wanted to learn about them. Rather than me just spewing on, today’s expert advice comes courtesy of building scientist Joe Lstiburek.

Plastic vapor barriers should only be installed in vented attics in climates with more than 8,000 heating degree days. You can forego the plastic and use a vapor retarder (kraft-faced insulation or latex ceiling paint) in all other climates except hot-humid or hot-dry climates. In hot-humid climates, attics should not be vented and vapor retarders should not be installed on the interior of assemblies.

In hot-dry climates a vapor retarder should also not be installed, but attics can be vented. All attics — vented or unvented — should have an air barrier (a properly detailed airtight drywall ceiling, for example) regardless of climate.

Omitting a ceiling vapor barrier by arguing that “you have to let the moisture escape” or “because the house has to breathe out the top” is actually correct, in a way. It’s also incorrect, in a way. Now, I’m a real fan (ha, ha) of controlled mechanical ventilation to limit interior moisture levels in cold and mixed climates, as well as to limit other interior contaminants in all climates. In other words, all houses require controlled mechanical ventilation in order to “breathe.” It is also my view that this necessary air change should not happen because of a leaky attic ceiling, attic vents, or even leaky walls. Hence the requirement for an air barrier and controlled mechanical ventilation in all houses regardless of climate.

Having said that, I do not have a problem with relieving some of the moisture load in the house via diffusion. This can be achieved through a roof assembly designed to handle it, such as a vented attic in a moderately cold or mixed climate. It’s important to understand that this is a climate-specific recommendation. In a well insulated attic in a very cold climate (more than 8,000 heating degree days), there is not enough heat loss into an attic from the house to allow for much moisture removal through ventilation. That’s because attic ventilation requires heat loss to remove moisture from attics. Cold air can’t hold much moisture. So ventilating a heavily insulated attic with outside air when it is really cold does not remove moisture. We do not want any moisture to get into an attic in a severely cold climate for this reason. As you move south into regions where it is not so miserably cold, this changes: Hence, the recommendation for a vapor barrier in a severely cold climate but only a vapor retarder in most other locations.

In the old days in severely cold climates, where attics were poorly insulated, it was okay to omit a plastic ceiling vapor barrier. The heat loss from the house warmed the attic sufficiently to allow attic ventilation to remove moisture from the attic. Cold outside air was brought into the attic and warmed up by the escaping heat loss, giving this air the capacity to pick up moisture from the attic and carry it to the exterior. This worked well until we added large quantities of attic insulation. With the added insulation, the attic stayed cold and so did the ventilating air from outside, which was now unable to effectively remove attic moisture. Hence the need to reduce moisture flow into the attic and the need for a vapor barrier.

There’s one other important qualification: Vapor moves in two ways, by diffusion through materials, and by air leakage through gaps and holes in building assemblies. Between the two, air leakage moves far more moisture than vapor diffusion. A vapor barrier in an attic assembly in a severely cold climate with the absence of an air barrier will likely be ineffective. On the other hand, an air barrier (a properly detailed air-tight drywall ceiling, for example) in the absence of a vapor barrier can be effective, since it stops the flow of vapor-laden air. You can’t just install plastic in a ceiling and assume it is also an air barrier. For plastic to be an air barrier, it needs to be continuous, meaning all joints and penetrations must be taped or caulked.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru; Good stuff to remember. Thanks Joe!

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Design, Ventilation, Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Heating, Post Frame Home, Barndominium, Shouse and tagged Air barrier, air leakage, insulation, attic moisture, vapor barrier, controlled mechanical ventilation, attic ventilation on March 17, 2020 by admin.

Pylon Sizes, Insulating a Pole Barn, and Plastic for Drainage

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about concrete pylon sizes, how to best finish and insulate an existing structure, and the best plastic for drainage.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What size do the concrete pylons need to be for a 24×36 building with an 11’ roof peak to be used for storage. No footer, just the basic building with 6”x6” posts. JAMES in VERSAILLES

DEAR JAMES: This information should have been clearly indicated on engineer sealed plans you are using for construction. Actual required depth, diameter and amount of concrete required to prevent settling, uplift and overturning is carefully calculated by your building’s engineer, once all factors can be considered. These include, but are not limited to: soil strength at your site, building wall height, roof slope, weight of building itself, snow load, wind speed and wind exposure, seismic considerations, whether building is fully or partially enclosed or is ‘open’, as well as spacing of columns. In most cases, I would expect to see an engineered design of roughly 40 inches in depth, 18 inches in diameter, with a minimum of 18 inches depth of concrete in bottom of hole (a bottom collar) and base of column held up eight inches from bottom of hole. A steel uplift plate is typically placed on columns in concreted area to prevent uplift. All of these factors as well as typical suggestions above should be fully reviewed and sealed by your building’s engineer prior to your moving forward.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’ve been reading through Mike’s information regarding post frame construction.

My wife and I moved into my parent’s old house, and would like to finish the inside of the pole barn that my father built 4 years ago. The trusses have a BCLL of 10 lbs. There’s single bubble between the purlins and metal, so the underside of the roof is always dry. We’d like to insulate the barn, but there is no housewrap (Tyvek) on the walls. My wife works and I’m disabled, so we don’t have very much extra money to spend. I’m physically not able to remove the metal on the walls and install housewrap. We can’t afford to hire someone to do this. We also can’t afford to have an insulation company spray foam the walls which would solve our problem. My father left about 60 new sheets of EPS foam board, and 50 – 60 new rolls of unfaced fiberglass insulation in the barn. Instead of taking the metal off the walls, would it be possible to wrap the interior of the walls in housewrap? It would be on the inside of the wall girts and wrap around the inside of the post. Would this prevent condensation from forming in the walls? Would it do any good to cut the EPS foam board and put it between the wall girts and fill all the edges of the EPS board with spray foam? I’m trying to come up with a practical solution to the problem, and was hoping Mike could help. I don’t want to ruin the fiberglass insulation, or the EPS foam board. I read one of Mike’s post about his wife being in a motorcycle accident and is now a paraplegic. I was driving home from work 19 years ago, and a big truck hit my car in the driver’s door. I was lucky to survive and was in a wheelchair for over 10 years. I still have the desire to do stuff out in the garage, but am very limited to what I can actually do. You never know what your future holds. Let me know if Mike has any possible solutions. I would appreciate it. GREG

DEAR GREG: Thank you very much for being a loyal reader.

Best possible solution would be to resell the EPS and the fiberglass and put those funds towards two inches of closed cell spray foam.

Trying to cut foam board and completely air seal it would be lots of labor and impossible to achieve. A Weather Resistant Barrier (Tyvek or similar) on the inside of the wall would either trap moisture in the wall or have it passing through into your interior without solving condensation against your wall steel. Chances are you would end up with some damp fiberglass over time.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am considering using 6 mil plastic sheeting about 5 feet wide from the bottom of the outside wall to drain any rainwater away from the building. Do you know of any issues this might present? RON in WINSTON

DEAR RON: If I was going to do this I would use 15mil black plastic as 6mil will just not hold up over time. I would seal it to my building’s pressure preservative treated splash plank and make sure to have ground sloping away from my building beneath plastic minimum of 5% (three inches in five feet).

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Trusses, Ventilation, Footings and tagged insulation, spray foam, footings, Plastic for Drainage, pylons on March 2, 2020 by admin.

Price Per Square Foot, Proper Post Treatment, and XPS

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers questions about the price per square foot for a hangar, the proper post treatment for in ground use, and use of XPS insulation between steel and wall posts.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What is the approximate price per square foot for a 62 x 130 t hangar? KENNETH in PUEBLO WEST

DEAR KENNETH: Thank you for your interest in a new Hansen Pole Building. Your question is rather like asking what is an approximate price for a new car – what type of car?

A Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer has been attempting to reach out to you to get more specifics on what you have in mind in order to get even a close price range for you.

Will this be a T hangar https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/09/airplane-t-hangar/ or a nested T? https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/09/nested-t-hangar/

What opening widths and heights will you require? Hangar doors can impact building height (and price) greatly. Sliding doors are a less expensive design solution than bi-fold or one-piece hydraulic doors, however present their own unique challenges.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have built post frame buildings on and off for 43 years. What is the industry doing to correct the problem of the post rotting off at ground line on post frame buildings? I have attempted to repair buildings in this condition that are settling into the ground. MATT in CLAREMORE

DEAR MATT: In my humble opinion, this could be resolved by having clear markings on Pressure Preservative Treated wood to not leave any doubt as to what proper use is. I have stomped my feet on this very issue for years: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/05/building-code-3/.

Over my 40 year post frame building career I have yet to see a documented case of a properly pressure preservative treated column rotting off.

DEAR POLE BAN GURU: Good Afternoon .

I have been exploring building a post frame home. Is using a combination of XPS and the external sheathing (~2.0 to 2.5″) and bat insulation in the bays (~R19-R26) possible. These two articles seem to me that the dew point would move inside the XPS during the MN winters and make the wall assembly much more durable. Do you think this might be correct? If so, would Post Frame construction easily adapt to this type of assembly?

https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-controlling-cold-weather-condensation-using-insulation

https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/bareports/ba-1301-guidance-taped-sheathing-drainage-planes/view

TIM in ST. PAUL

DEAR TIM: Designed right, post frame homes are wonderful. My lovely bride and I live in an 8000 square foot post frame shouse (shop/house) not too far distant from you (we are roughly 200 miles due West).

Post frame buildings work structurally very similar to why jet airlines hold together – their ‘skin’ is holding everything together. With post frame, wind loads are transferred from building to ground through this steel roofing and siding skin.

When non-structural insulation boards (XPS) are inserted between framing and steel siding, screws holding steel would have to be exceedingly long. Screw shanks through XPS sheathing would deform (bend) under extreme wind events, causing a reduction in abilities to properly transmit loads. This could contribute to premature building system failure.

An easier solution would be to use two inches of closed cell spray foam insulation between wall girts on steel siding interior surface. This would accomplish a similar end result, without a compromise in building strength.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Ventilation, Columns, Barndominium, Insulation and tagged insulation, price per square foot, UC-4B, post rot, post treatment, building costs, XPS boards on February 10, 2020 by admin.

Building Permits, Building Changes, and Frost Protection

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers questions about ability to “build … without any problems…” permitting, adding wall skirting to an open building, and appropriate frost protection.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can I build my pole barn in Hernando County without any problems from the county for permitting which is located in Brooksville, Florida? CHARLES in BROOKSVILLE

DEAR CHARLES: Maybe – you need to be discussing with your county’s Planning Department at (352)754-4057. It will depend upon zoning of your property, restrictions and lot size.

This will help you along: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/01/planning-department-3/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Bought a home with existing pole barn and need to find a local contractor to skirt it. How do I find someone to do underpinning? JANE in HIXSON

DEAR JANE: Before making changes to your building, such as this, it would behoove you to consult with engineer who originally designed. If they are unknown or unavailable, you should consult with an engineer who can evaluate what you have and what you want done, in order to determine if structural upgrades will be necessary. Many pole barns with little or no sides were not originally designed to support this added wind load, and it is best to be safe, rather than sorry.

Once you have engineer approval, check to see if a Building Permit is required.

Only then could you go to your local Craigslist and post what you want done under “Gigs”. Be fairly specific and you should receive several qualified responses.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We plan on installing a cement slab floor inside our pole building for our farm shop. We were planning to install hard board insulation 2 ft deep 2 inches thick around the perimeter of the building. But we have a footing and wall of 42 inches underneath insulated garage doors. Do we need to have insulation on the outside of the walls below grade to keep frost from migrating inside under the floor? We have a 48 ft door, plus a 24 and a 16 ft door on this building. We will drive trucks or combines inside this building. We are doing this project right now…we have finished first wall. Thank you for your help. ED in FREELAND

DEAR ED: Yes, you should be placing insulation outside of your building walls, below grade, to prevent frost from migrating under your concrete floor. Please read this article for more information: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2016/11/frost-protected-shallow-foundations/

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Building Department, Steel Roofing & Siding, Pole Building Siding, Concrete, Professional Engineer and tagged frost, insulation, building permits, wall steel, building changes on December 16, 2019 by admin.

Post Frame Condensation and Insulation Challenge

Solving Yet Another Post Frame Condensation and Insulation Challenge

Long time loyal readers will sigh as yet another post frame building has been erected without thoughts to how to properly insulate and control condensation. Had our new friend invested in a Hansen Pole Building, chances are good we would not be having this question and I would have had to write about something else today! Our Building Designers follow with these recommendations: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/11/post-frame-building-insulation/.

Our new friend COREY in POST FALLS writes:

“I have a 36×48 pole building with trusses on 12’ with BCDL 5psf, the roof is plywood sheeted with composition roofing with ridge vent and gable vents. The wall Purlins are on the exterior of the poles and there is no vapor barrier. I would like to install a ceiling with insulation and insulate the walls. I am looking for vapor barrier and insulation recommendations. Was thinking of installing 2×4 on 24 centers to bottom of trusses and installing OSB and blown in insulation, and then framing in between poles adding batt insulation and sheeting with OSB, but am unsure of controlling vapor. Thank you.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru responds:

Small world, many years ago I graduated from Post Falls High School!

A vented ridge relying upon gable vents as an air intake is usually very inefficient. You should make sure your vents in each end are located in the top half of your attic and have at least 415 square inches of net free ventilating area on each end. This means you are probably going to have to add more vents. Effective ventilation of this area is essential to preventing mold and mildew in your attic.

Wall girts flat on column exteriors are inadequate to carry imposed loads and will not meet deflection limitations. I would suggest you reinforce each of them to create either an “L” or a “T”. Assuming you have 6×6 wall columns, you could place a 2×8 bookshelf style girt on top or bottom of each girt, nailing through 2×8 into existing girts with a 10d common nail at say 12 inches on center. This will create an insulation cavity and allow for easy interior finish.

For ceiling joists between your trusses, 2×4 will not be adequate you should use 2×6 #2 with joist hangers on each end.

Unless you have a Weather Resistant Barrier (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2016/01/determining-the-most-effective-building-weather-resistant-barrier-part-1/) between framing and wall steel, my recommendation would be to have two inches of closed cell insulation spray foam to the inside of wall steel. Then fill balance of wall cavity with BIBs insulation: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/11/bibs/ with a well sealed vapor barrier towards the inside space.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Ventilation, Pole Barn Questions, Building Interior, Pole Barn Design, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Barndominium and tagged BIBS insulation, batt insulation, gable vents, bookshelf wall girts, vented ridge, insulation, vapor barrier, barndominium condensation, condensation on December 4, 2019 by admin.

Post Frame Building Insulation

Pole Barn Guru’s Ultimate Guide to Post Frame Building Insulation

When it comes to insulating any building (not just post frame ones – like barndominiums) there is a certain point of diminishing returns – one can spend so much they will never, in their lifetimes, recoup their investment.

Here my ultimate guide to post frame building insulation is based upon practicality and obtaining the best possible value for investment.

There are some basics applicable to any steel covered building:

Under any concrete slab on grade inside a building, place a well-sealed vapor barrier. Read about under slab vapor barriers here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/11/vapor-barriers-slabs-grades/.

Between roof framing and steel roofing – please do not assume condensation is not going to be a problem. At some point in time it will become one and if precautions are not taken regrets will happen. Condensation under roof steel is maybe number one of the issues I am asked to assist with.

Least expensive financially, but does take some extra labor hours, especially if it is windy – a single air cell layer reflective radiant barrier. Six foot widths will install much quicker than four foot. Make sure to order with a six foot width NET COVERAGE and an adhesive tab along one edge with a pull strip. Without an adhesive tab all butt edges will require seam tape, not expensive, but adds lots of time. Do not waste your money on adding an extra approximate R 0.5 for double bubble (two layers of air cells).

For a slightly great investment in materials, hours of labor can be saved by the use of an Integral Condensation Control bonded to roof steel. This would be my product choice. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/03/integral-condensation-control/.

Next higher cost would be sheathing the roof with either OSB (Oriented Strand Board) or plywood on top of roof purlins. Roof purlins will need to be spaced appropriately so sheathing seams fall on purlins (16, 19-3/8 or 24 inches on center). Roof truss top chord live load must be increased to allow for greater dead loads. Either 30# felt (asphalt impregnated paper) or an Ice and Water Shield must be placed between sheathing and roof steel. Roof screws must still be placed to go into purlins, as thin sheathing is inadequate to adequately hold screws.

Bigger financial investment, but no extra labor involved is to have two inches of closed cell foam sprayed on the underside of roof steel. This will prevent condensation and is noise deadening. As a rough budgetary figure, plan upon spending roughly two dollars per square foot of roof surface.

Storage/Utility Buildings

If you ever believe anyone might ever have a future desire to climate control your building then provisions should be made for making it easiest to make future upgrades.

For now we will assume this building is totally cold storage. If it might ever (even in your wildest dreams) be heated and/or cooled include in your initial design, walls with a Weather Resistant Barrier (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2016/01/determining-the-most-effective-building-weather-resistant-barrier-part-1/) between framing and siding.

Taking walls one step further would be ‘commercial’ bookshelf wall girts (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/09/commercial-girts-what-are-they/).

In roof – have trusses designed to support a ceiling load, ideally of 10 pounds per square foot (read about ceiling loaded trusses here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2016/03/ceiling-loaded-trusses/).

Trusses should also be designed with raised heels to provide full depth of future attic insulation above walls (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/raised-heel-trusses/).

Make provision for attic ventilation, by having an air intake along sidewalls using enclosed ventilated soffits and exhaust with a vented ridge.

Any overhead doors should be ordered insulated – just a good choice in general as, besides offering a minimal thermal resistance, they are stiffer against the wind.

Equine Only Use

Same as storage/utility however ventilation is essential (and often overlooked). (Read more on stall barns here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/08/stall-barn/)

Garage/Workshop/Man Cave/She Shed/House/Shouse/Barndominium

Many previous recommendations are going to be repeated here. Ultimately it is going to depend upon willingness to include higher R values in initial budget, rather than having increased utility bills forever.

Start with a Frost-Protected Shallow Foundation – post frame version (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2016/11/frost-protected-shallow-foundations/) with sand on the inside rather than a thickened slab. This makes for an excellent and affordable design solution.

For walls, we will again work from generally ascending price and R values.

On low end would be having installed a weather resistant barrier beneath wall steel, in conjunction with commercial bookshelf wall girts. Fill insulation cavity with unfaced batt insulation and cover inside face of wall with a well-sealed six ml clear visqueen vapor barrier. As an alternative to fiberglass would be mineral wool insulation as it is not affected by moisture (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/03/roxul-insulation/). This method can be entirely done D-I-Y.

I have personally used BIBs (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/11/bibs/) in several buildings, including my current barndominium home. It does require a certified installer.

A Weather Resistant Barrier can be eliminated by the use of a ‘flash coat’ of two inches of closed cell spray foam against the inside of wall steel. Balance of wall cavity can be filled with batt insulation. (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2016/07/advantages-spray-foam-over-batt-insulation/).

For added R value and a complete thermal break, add two inch rigid closed cell foam boards to inside of framing. To maintain thermal break integrity, glue foam boards to inside of framing and properly seal all seams. Gypsum wallboard can be glued to the face of foam boards.

After ceiling has been installed, have insulation blown into dead attic space, following Energy Star™ guidelines (usually R-45 to R-60).

This entry was posted in Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Ventilation, Insulation, Post Frame Home, Pole Barn Design, Barndominium, About The Pole Barn Guru, Roofing Materials and tagged insulation, condensation, integral condensation control, reflective radiant barrier, ice and water shield, commercial bookshelf wall girts on November 27, 2019 by admin.

Contact Information, Moisture Barrier, and Insulation

Today the Pole Barn Guru answers questions about contact information to build a structure, whether or not to use a moisture barrier in a non-conditioned attic, and guidance to insulate a post frame building.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, I have a quick question, do you have any regional contact information for people to build these barns? Thank you,

EARL in LOWER MICHIGAN

DEAR EARL: In many areas Hansen Pole Buildings can provide contact information of one or more possible contractors to erect buildings. We can let you know in advance if your area is one or not, however we will not provide names and numbers until after you have invested in a new post frame building kit package from us.

Why?

As much as we would like to believe otherwise, not every client or contractor is morally trustworthy. We have provided builder information to potential clients and had these same wonderful clients try to get builders to go around us and cut a better deal for their building materials. Conversely, we have had builders tell our clients to buy everything direct from them and they will get a better deal.

When either of these situations occur, clients are shortchanging themselves as they are not getting a genuine third-party engineered Hansen Pole Building. We hear about these when problems occur (they almost always do) during construction and clients call our office looking for help! My sympathy level for these people is very low, as they have gotten themselves into their own predicament – generally with disastrous results. Often times these same builders fail to see Building Permits are obtained, or neglect to call for required inspections. Or, builders will provide non-engineered and under design buildings – prone to failing under snow or wind loads far below minimum standards.

If it sounds shady, it probably is.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Mike, thank you for all the great info…

If I build a pole barn with attic storage and insulate only the walls and ceiling with blown in cellulose such that really only the interior ground floor space is insulated (and it will be heated in the winter), should I still worry about condensation on the roof sheet metal up in the attic, since the air up there should be at a similar temperature to outside? (There will be soffit vents and a ridge vent for attic air flow)
IE, do I need the bubble wrap material, or is it then unnecessary if the attic space is uninsulated?

Thanks! JESSE in CLEVELAND

DEAR JESSE: Thank you very much for your kind words!

Absolutely, you should be concerned about attic condensation. Warm moist air from inside your conditioned space will rise into attic and when it comes in contact with your building’s roof steel’s cooler surface it will condense (even with ventilation). For sake of ease of construction I would recommend an integrated Condensation Control Membrane (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/07/condenstop/ ). It will be slightly more expensive for materials than a Reflective Radiant Barrier, however time saved should make it well worth your investment.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: In central KY, would it be best to have outside metal, then house wrap on the girts, then plastic vapor barrier, then have blown or fiberglass insulation in the walls, then install metal interior? Is this the correct order or would this be wrong? Also on the ceiling and roof, would you put house wrap under the metal roof, then insulate directly against roof from inside, or just insulate directly on top of the ceiling, which would be metal, like the interior walls? Thank you!! BRAD in LEXINGTON

DEAR BRAD: Here is my definitive guide to post frame insulation: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/06/pole-barn-insulation-oh-so-confusing/

In your case – you want moisture to be able to pass out of your wall cavity, so any vapor barrier needs to be on inside directly behind your finished wall surface material. House wrap (Weather Resistant Barrier or WRB) is not a vapor barrier. If installed directly under your roof steel it will allow warm moist air to pass through and you will have condensation between WRB and steel. Not good.

Directly between roof steel and purlins use one of these:

Properly sealed Radiant Reflective Barrier, Steel with Condenstop or Dripstop factory applied, 30# felt or Ice/Snow Shield over plywood or OSB, or (if none of those previously mentioned) two inches of closed cell spray foam. Me, I’d vote for Condenstop/Dripstop as it is a relatively low investment and easy to install. Blow in insulation on top of your ceiling.

And think hard about steel liner panels – they are more expensive than drywall, they reflect sound, there is a potential for condensation from your ceiling and it is difficult to attach things to walls (shelves, cabinets, work benches, etc.).

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Pole Barn Heating, Uncategorized, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Roofing Materials and tagged moisture barrier, Condenstop, contacts, builder referrals, insulation on November 18, 2019 by admin.

Floor Plans, Pressure Treated Posts, and Temperature Control

Today’s Pole Barn Guru discusses floor plans, pressure treated posts, and temperature control in an insulated pole barn.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am retiring from the Navy and moving to Knoxville TN. We are looking at land to purchase and home floor plans for our “dream” house. I have read some about pole barns and home use. My real question is can a pole barn be made to look more like a “traditional” farmhouse? These are the types of homes we like. And I have not seen many pole bars that end up looking like this. Is this or close to this possible?

Thanks, JOHN in KNOXVILLE

DEAR JOHN: You are moving to one of my favorite areas – my oldest son and his daughter lived in Maryville for many years and we built a post frame garage with an in-law apartment above it in their back yard.
Post frame (pole barn) buildings can be made to look like any type of layout, even your “traditional” farm house. As you get closer to your move, please call and discuss your project with a Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer at 1(866)200-9657.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My pressure treated poles have started to rot at ground level after only five years. The barn is built on clay. Posts are six feet in the ground. I am thinking I should get to cutting the posts above the rot, stitching steel angle to the posts and then pouring a pad underneath. I’m concerned that this will mean a really big pad though, which would obviously cancel out the reason for this method of construction. Any tips or can you point me to a past forum thread please?

Many thanks, PAUL in BRIGHTON

DEAR PAUL: Your pressure treated poles are starting to rot at ground level most likely because they came from a provider who did not sell you material with an adequate level of treatment (UC-4B). Most big box stores and lumberyards sadly do not inventory properly pressure preservative treated timbers (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/05/building-code-3/).

Building upon clay only contributes to your issues, as it should have been removed prior to construction (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/06/post-frame-construction-on-clay-soils/).

You should engaged services of a Registered Professional Engineer who can adequately design a concrete footing adequate to support your building against wind and snow loads, while being deep enough to prevent frost heave issues. A simple angle iron will not be enough to handle uplift or overturning, however your engineer might utilize a wet set anchor such as these: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/05/sturdi-wall-plus-concrete-brackets/.

This is not a place where you want to seat of your pants engineer a solution – only to end up with yet another failure.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I recently put up a pole barn, 15 inches of blown in insulation in the ceiling, walls are 1.5 foam spray, then R13 bat over that. The building is 54 x 36. An insulated overhead door, walk in door, and 4 2 x 3 windows. I recently put the epoxy garage 20 x floor paint (epoxy ) on the floor. when it’s completely closed up , and you go in it, It’s very cool in normal 80 degree temps outside. it stays cool, for awhile, and nothing to shade the building. After awhile it’s not cool, after the buildings been open awhile. My guess is because no humidity is getting in the pole barn, is why it’s so cool, am I correct, and do you see any problems from what I have said? RON in DANVILLE

DEAR RON: Your building is cool when it has been closed up due to temperature of soil being roughly 55 degrees F. where it cannot be affected by direct sunlight or frost. This same temperature is transmitted through your building’s concrete floor. Once you open your building’s doors, outside and inside air temperatures will try to equalize.

This entry was posted in Columns, Insulation, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Planning and tagged insulation, pressure treated posts, floor plans, UC-4B, temperature control on July 22, 2019 by admin.

Pre-Drilling, Housewrap, and Concrete Footings

Today the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about pre-drilling steel panels, the proper use of house-wrap and weather resistant barriers, as well as concern for the effectiveness or fresh concretes ability to withstand compression.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What size hole should I predrill in panels for the #12 diaphragm screws? Thanks! JOSEPH in KIOWA

DEAR JOSEPH: From Hansen Pole Buildings’ Construction Manual, Chapter 2:

“For pre-boring nail holes, 7/64” and 1/8” bits are required. Same size bit can be used for pre-drilling steel roofing and siding.”

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Having read all of the info relating to insulating and am still confused. Main question is my entire 40×48 was wrapped in Tyvek including the roof. Now am trying to figure out if and how I can install a vapor barrier for the roof? Am planning to put in a ceiling with blown insulation above it and would like some options for the vapor barrier. Not sure if the roof Tyvek is a help or a hindrance. KEVIN in MALAD CITY

DEAR KEVIN: I’d like to find builders who are using Weather Resistant Barriers (WRB) under roof steel on post frame buildings, thinking they are installing a vapor barrier, and slap them silly. They have totally wasted their client’s hard earned money and, as in your case, have created a hindrance. Your only real solution is to remove Tyvek from under roof steel and replace it with an actual vapor barrier (one with a thermal break). You might see if a local spray foam installer would be willing to flash spray two inches of closed cell foam on underside of your building’s WRB.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My contractor poured concrete in each hole for a 30’ x 32’ pole shed and about 4 hours later started setting poles and put the entire frame up yet that same day. Can the concrete actually cure that fast or should I be concerned? PAUL in MITCHELL

DEAR PAUL: I am guessing you are talking about concrete poured for a footing pad under the columns.

Concrete gains its strength with time after casting. The rate of gain of concrete compression strength in higher during the first 28 days of casting and then it slows down. The compression strength gained by concrete after 24 hours is only 16%!

For practical purposes, a four hour old concrete footing is virtually worthless. Yes, you should be concerned.

This entry was posted in Roofing Materials, Concrete, Footings, Pole Barn Questions and tagged insulation, concrete footings, weather resistant barrier, Screw holes, pre-drill steel on May 13, 2019 by admin.

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