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Scout Camp Pavilion, Post Frame Financing, and Lot Size Needed

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about providing a 20x40x10 pavilion for a scout camp in Florida, what sort of financing options Hansen is able to provide, and how much land or lot size might be needed to build a pole building.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We need a 20 x 40x 10 pavilion for a Scout Camp in Clay County Florida. If that is something your company can do, could you please send me a quote? Thank you. ROB in ST. AUGUSTINE

DEAR ROB: Hansen Pole Buildings has provided roughly a hundred fully engineered post frame buildings to our clients in Florida. You will also be happy to hear, we also offer discounts to qualified charitable organizations: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/08/charitable-organizations/

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello! What are your options for financing? I am a veteran planning to use a VA construction loan for purchasing a plot and initially constructing a modest tiny house, then, upon completing my grad degree in 2-3 years adding a four car garage and a horse barn. My initial budget is $300k for making this happen (land, VA approved construction parameters.) It’ll most likely be in Maryland or a reasonable commuting distance from Ft. Meade possibly PA or DE. Thanks. CHARLOTTE in LUTHERVILLE

DEAR CHARLOTTE: Hansen Pole Buildings offers several different financing options. Please see www.HansenPoleBuildings.com/financing for details.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How much acreage is needed to build a pole barn in Madison County, IL? BONNIE in ALTON

DEAR BONNIE: Depending upon how your property is zoned, it could be as little as a city lot. You will need to contact your Building and Zoning Department at 1.618.296.4468 https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/01/planning-department-3/

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Insulation Options, Building Plans, and a Swing Table

This week Mike the Pole Barn Guru discusses about insulation options, building plans for a back yard pavilion, and steel gauge for a “swing table.”

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We are well on our way toward breaking ground. Our biggest concerns that we seem to keep going back to are these. We want a tight, dry efficient house. Although we get a little winter we are way more concerned with cooling. I love the dark metal for the roof but my husband thinks it will make the house hotter. Any advice you can offer to achieve our goals would be appreciated. We can afford to do it right but don’t want to overdo. JENNY in ARTEMUS

DEAR JENNY: If you are going to build a fully engineered post frame building, then you should be able to meet with all of your goals. By using flash and batt (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/01/flash-and-batt-insulating-barndominium-walls/)  for your wall insulation system, you will have tight walls. Kentucky is in Climate Zone 4 where ceiling R-value must be at least R-49 by Code. For the small difference in investment, I would suggest blowing in R-60 and using 22″ energy heel trusses to get full insulation thickness from wall-to-wall. Here in NE South Dakota we have a black steel roof and R-60 attic insulation. Our typical late summer is 90 degree plus days and with our attic insulated as it is, any heat gain from our black roof is negligible. For more information on energy efficiency please read: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/11/post-frame-building-insulation/.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: First, thanks for this website. I have found it very useful in my research. I work in tech and am not a carpenter, but I have worked construction before and I am taking on building an out door pavilion in our back yard. The dimensions are 20’x14′ hipped roof with posts at 18′ and 12′. I have found a couple of plans online and have purchased them and studied them inside and out to see whether or not I could take this on. I believe that I can. The plans that I have both have a 6 post layout. I would like to modify them a bit to eliminate the center posts and only have 4 posts. I have solved that by using an LVL microlam beam for the roof stringers. My real question though is around knee braces. the plans have knee braces in them, but I would like to not have them if at all possible. I have seen similar construction images that don’t have them. I am planning on using 6×6 posts and notching out the top for the stringers. Would not having braces influence the joinery choice of the stringers? Including a couple files for reference. Thanks for any and all help!! BJ in WASHINGTON

DEAR BJ: Thank you for your kind words. In all reality, when it comes to post frame construction, if you are physically capable and will read assembly instructions then you can successfully erect your own beautiful building. Your structure should be able to be done without a need for knee braces, however it would behoove you to have it designed by a Registered Professional Engineer. In most instances they will save you more money in eliminating inefficiencies than you will pay them for their services. Depending upon your building’s eave height and overall height of your roof, 6×6 columns may or may not be adequate for your purpose, again – your engineer can specify this as well as all needed connections.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I was going to make this for a client, probably 2 or 2.5 inch square tubing. Just curious to what thickness I should use? I was thinking 11ga- 1/8 inch thick steel. I just don’t know if that will be strong to enough to support a human. The part they will be hanging from will be about 4 foot wide. BLAKE

DEAR BLAKE: Sizing steel members is most certainly out of my wheelhouse, although I appreciate your inquiry. Given pricing of this unit, I would recommend you consult with a Registered Professional Engineer to size members as well as design connections – since people will be potentially injured (or worse) in event of a failure, you do not want to be in a liability position. My one recommendation would be to have it powder coated to minimize rusting potentialities.

 

This entry was posted in Ramadas, Post Frame Home, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Planning, Ventilation, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Homes and tagged , , , , , on by .

What To Do With an Old Dollar General Pole Barn

What to Do With an Old Dollar General® Pole Barn

In the fall of 2016 the town of Reading, MI purchased the pole barn which had previously been the home of a Dollar General® store. The original plan was to convert the pole barn into a new city hall, but, after seeing the estimated price tag the idea was set aside.

The city’s maintenance man, Bob Jepsen, suggested tearing down the walls, replacing the building’s leaky roof and converting the building into a pavilion. It turns out the city’s planning commission thought this would be a great idea and held a public meeting to discuss.
In the early days of railway transportation, the brakemen rode in the last car of the train – the caboose (seen many of these lately?). He had one of the deadliest jobs in America, as the brakeman had to work from the tops of the railway cars in all sorts of weather.

In the case of the old Dollar General® pole barn, I am going to act as brakeman on the runaway train which is the remodel of the building into a pavilion.
Tearing the walls off of an existing post frame (pole barn) building sounds relatively easy – and from a labor standpoint it may be. Where it all gets dicey is when it comes to structural engineering.

When a post frame building has its walls removed, the columns (posts) now act as cantilevers. They are functioning similar to a diving board, where the end is very flexible. With the walls on the building, the columns are, in most cases, acting as beams supported at one end by the ground and the other by a relatively rigid roof diaphragm.

The difference in the loads which the columns must resist are increased by a factor of four without the walls present, as the posts become the sole structural members for transfer of wind loads from the roof to the ground. This potentially not only impacts the design of the columns, but also of their embedment into the ground.

Whether it is this particular Dollar General® pole barn, or any other post frame building where exterior walls are being considered for removal, a RDP (Registered Design Professional – engineer or architect) should be engaged early on in the process to make a determination as to what upgrades are necessary to result in a structurally sound building.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Professional Engineer and tagged , , , , on by .

Dear Guru: How Do I Cut into a Truss?

Welcome to Ask the Pole Barn Guru – where you can ask questions about building topics, with answers posted on Mondays.  With many questions to answer, please be patient to watch for yours to come up on a future Monday or Saturday segment.  If you want a quick answer, please be sure to answer with a “reply-able” email address.

Email all questions to: PoleBarnGuru@HansenPoleBuildings.com

 DEAR POLE BARN GURU:The bottom chord of a truss must be cut to allow a set of steps to rise to the loft. How best to make up for the loss of the bottom chord? LIVE FROM LA

CRESCENT DEAR LIVE: Repeat this mantra: “I will never cut into a truss without engineering”. My first recommendation would be to relocate the stairs so as to not have to cut a truss. The bottom chord of a truss is in tension (unless there is a situation from wind which would cause a stress reversal). Think of it as holding the walls together, so the top chord can do its job. Cut the bottom chord and place a load on the roof and expect it to deflect significantly, as well as probably collapse. Neither is a good answer.

It MIGHT be possible to remove a portion of the bottom chord, without a failure.  Start with a visit to the truss manufacturer. Take along as many digital photos of the trusses as possible, or the original engineer sealed truss drawings. Their engineers can tell you if what you have in mind can be done, and at a nominal cost. If it is impossible to determine who built the trusses, or they are no longer in business (over 50% of all truss manufacturers closed their doors during the Great Recession) then the only option is to hire a registered professional engineer.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am in the process of building a 24’x 48′ pavilion. I installed ten 6×6’s 12’ oc, 36 inches in the ground on 4 inch cookies. The holes are 18 inches in diameter. The holes and slab where poured at once, with a 4 inch slab. I used 2x10x12’s inside and out of the posts. 10 foot ceiling. 4/12 trusses 24′ with 2’OH spaced 24″ on center. 7/16 osb with shingles. Installed 5 foot 6×6 Y braces attached to the posts and header using 1/2 inch threadall washers and nuts. Installed wind bracing on trusses (W shape the whole length (48′) both sides.

With all this done I still have side movement. I do realize I have a large structure, which has a ceiling 10′ off the ground with no side walls. I would estimate 2-3 inch movement with me walking around on the peak of the roof. I thought about putting knee bracing to stop the side to side movement. I prefer not to put 2x material as knee bracing which would take away the look I have with the beefy material of 6×6’s as Y bracing I have.

Plus the only thing to hold them would be trusses above since I have no other side to side support material. Should I be concerned with this movement? I am waiting to install 4 inch by 12′ tongue and groove planks on the ceiling. I would think this would also help stiffen up the structure. We do get some high winds in this area. Would hate to wake up and the structure is on the ground.   Thanks.. TEETERING IN TIPP CITY 

DEAR TEETERING: You have discovered the inherent challenge of roof only (pavilion) type structures. By not having any walls, it increases the amount of force (and therefore movement) carried by the columns by a factor of four! In simplified terms – think of the 6x6s now acting as diving boards. Without knowing the loading conditions at your site, it is very possible the 6×6 columns you have selected will not be adequate to carry the wind loads in extreme conditions – which could cause your building to fail.  Before you take the step of adding knee braces – this would be a good article to read: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/blog/2012/01/post-frame-construction-knee-braces/ My normal recommendation would be to consult with the engineer who designed your building – as he or she will be able to determine if the movement you are experiencing is within acceptable limits. The easiest way to get rid of the majority of the movement, would be to put a wall across one of both ends. This wall would then transfer the wind loads from the roof to the ground – rather than making the columns do all of the work.

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