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Dragging Panels, Code Compliance, and “Some Assembly Required”

Today’s “ask the Pole Barn Guru” addresses reader questions about dragging steel panels over one another during installation, and the effects on the panels, a recommendation to consult a registered design professional in Michigan regarding footings, and if a Hansen Building is a “some assembly required” type of kit.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: So I am having a building put up. They drug the roof sheets across the other sheets so I’m concerned about the paint being scratched. But my main question is would you consider this acceptable? The picture isn’t the best but hopefully you can see what I’m talking about. I’m not saying what I don’t like as I want an honest opinion. Hopefully they come through. thank you for any advice you can give me. LEE in BEAVER CROSSING

DEAR LEE: This excerpt is from American Building Components 29 gauge steel roofing installation manual (most, if not all steel roll formers should have similar language):

“On job sites, reasonable care should be taken when handling painted surfaces during installation in order to protect the finish. Although the paint coating is tough and provides impact resistance, dragging panels across the surface of one another will almost certainly mar the finish.”

I would not consider dragging panels up a roof to be an acceptable installation. Sadly, your recourse is probably quite limited. It might be possible to have them post a bond to guarantee no adverse effects from panels being drug up roof – however chances are actual damage may not become evident for years, if not decades.

Although it should not affect structural integrity, random placement of screws going up roof leads me to believe installers had little or no prior experience. As you look up roof, screws should appear in a straight line.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m building a post frame barn and we like it so much as we move on with the project that I’m wanting to use part of the barn as a pole barn home. I used Permcolums 8ft on center and set them on a footer 24×13 inch poured concrete. I need to convince our inspector that the columns on my footings work. He would like a footing between each post. I’m wanting in floor heat and using R10 foam 250 around the sides and under the concrete. Is this a code compliance method? Thanks. KELLY in BROWN CITY

DEAR KELLY: Building Codes allow for residences to be supported by widely spaced piers. There is no structural rationale for a continuous footing or foundation not supporting a continuous load from above. Some jurisdictions in Michigan have enacted “rat wall” ordinances, however there is merit for them being other than concrete: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/06/rat-wall/. Here are some methods for rodent protection: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2021/03/rascally-rodents/.

My recommendation would be to engage services of a Registered Professional Michigan engineer who can evaluate your structure as built for structural sufficiency and provide sealed plans. A resource to find one would be: https://nfba.org/aws/NFBA/pt/sp/directory. Select “Designer” under What you are looking for.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Are these pole structures assembled on site or just a “kit-some assembly required”? THOMAS in SEBRING

DEAR THOMAS: They are complete building kits requiring assembly on site.

Your new building kit is designed for the average physically capable person, who can and will read and follow instructions, to successfully construct your own beautiful building shell, without extensive prior construction knowledge (and most of our clients do DIY – saving tens of thousands of dollars). We’ve had clients ranging from septuagenarians to fathers bonding with their teenage daughters erect their own buildings, so chances are – you can as well!

Your new building investment includes full multi-page 24” x 36” structural blueprints detailing the location and attachment of every piece (as well as suitable for obtaining Building Permits), the industry’s best, fully illustrated, step-by-step installation manual, and unlimited technical support from people who have actually built post frame buildings. Even better – it includes our industry leading Limited Lifetime Structural warranty!

This entry was posted in Insulation, Footings, Pole Barn Questions, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Design, Columns, Building Department, Roofing Materials, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Building Siding and tagged , , , , , , , on by .

Costs to Erect, A Water Leak, and Expansive Soils

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers questions about the costs of erecting a small metal barn, how to address leaks after moving a building, and building on expansive soils.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What is the cost to hire for installation of a small, 24 x 36, metal barn? JACKIE in CUMMINS

DEAR JACKIE: Currently (and for the foreseeable future) there is a nationwide shortage of building erectors. Many high quality erectors are booked out into 2023. We would strongly encourage you to consider erecting your own building shell and most of our clients are building themselves.

For those without the time or inclination, we have an extensive independent Builder Network covering the contiguous 48 states (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/find-a-builder/). We can assist you in getting erection labor pricing as well as introducing you to potential builders.
A CAUTION in regards to ANY erector: If an erector tells you they can begin quickly it is generally either a big red flag, or you are being price gouged. ALWAYS THOROUGHLY VET ANY CONTRACTOR https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/04/vetting-building-contractor/
Your new building kit is designed for the average physically capable person, who can and will read and follow instructions, to successfully construct your own beautiful building shell (and most of our clients do DIY – saving tens of thousands of dollars). We’ve had clients ranging from septuagenarians to fathers bonding with their teenage daughters erect their own buildings, so chances are – you can as well!

Your new building investment includes full multi-page 24” x 36” structural blueprints detailing the location and attachment of every piece (as well as suitable for obtaining Building Permits), the industry’s best, fully illustrated, step-by-step installation manual, and unlimited technical support from people who have actually built post frame buildings. Even better – it includes our industry leading Limited Lifetime Structural warranty!

Should you decide to engage a building erector, in most instances, fair market value for labor is roughly 50% of what your building kit investment is.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I just moved my pole barn forward 20ft. forward. There was a slab poured for the pole barn, so I added 20foot more on to the front of the original slab, anchored it to the old slab and pulled it forward. The back of the pole barn leaks water underneath the wall in spots and I was wondering whether I need to cut some kind of trough on the outside slab to let the water drain better. As of now I do not have gutters. The pole barn measures 30 feet by 50 feet. CHRISTOPHER in BURKESVILLE

DEAR CHRISTOPHER: You are far more ambitious than I in moving your pole barn. You should seal bottom of your pressure preservative treated splash plank to your building’s concrete slab. It would not hurt a bit to cut out a strip of slab adjacent to your wall, even better if a French drain system was placed in trough to keep water from flowing under your building.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, I am planning a Barndominium on our property but we have challenging soils (8% swell with expansive soils) with the recommendation from the soils and structural consultants to do a stem wall and caissons with 4′ of over excavation for any slabs on grade. We had a rather large barn portion planned and the home section my wife is favoring a shape that would lead toward conventional stud frame construction method. If the foundation types are the same, it would seem that the two building types would be feasible but conversely I have never seen a pole barn on a caisson/stem wall foundation. Any insight is appreciated. Stacy

DEAR STACY: Expansive soils always make for a challenge for any building system. Post frame building foundations are, by their nature, a caisson style foundation – eliminating any need for a continuous foundation and footing system. This can be accomplished by either embedded columns, or columns attached by Code approved wet set brackets to concrete piers. For your home section, it would be unusual for stud frame construction to be more effective or efficient than post frame, regardless of shape.

For extended reading about post frame construction on expansive soils, please see: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/07/barndominium-on-expansive-soils/

 

 

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Planning, Concrete, Footings, Professional Engineer, Columns, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Constructing a Pole Building and tagged , , , , , , on by .

Sturdi-Wall Brackets

Placement of Sturdi-Wall Plus Brackets

I am enjoying our client Dan who is in the process of getting started with his new Hansen Pole Buildings’ kit package. My educated guess is he is going to construct one truly beautiful building.

Dan has a great question, which I will share:

“So I went ahead and purchased the Sturdi-Wall Plus brackets (in concrete is the rebar) from Perma Column. Really nicely made.

 So my plan now is to dig, setup similar to what is in attached picture and get everything nice and level before hand. 

So what I’d like to do is set my piers all at equal elevation and leveled. Then, wooden boxes so they are square to allow ground girts to sit nicely. 

 Here is my dilemma. What height to set the piers to? If I set them 3.5” lower than my anticipated concrete floor, that means that I wouldn’t be able to tie my poles to my floor with rebar as shown in sealed plans PDF. Would it therefore make sense to lower the piers even more so that the bottom of the Sturdi-wall is level to the bottom of the 2×8? That would mean I am burying the bracket in 3.5” of concrete (I’d imagine if removed Sturdi-wall I’d have a square) but I would be able to tie the rebar to the post. 

 Does that all make sense? “

Well, Dan’s question does make sense and I believe I can make his life fairly easy.

Set the Sturdi-Wall Plus brackets so the bottom of the bracket and top of pier are even with the level of your concrete floor. Take two five foot long pieces of rebar, bent at a 90 degree angle with one leg into the encasement around the brackets, the other leg out into the future slab. This will accomplish effectively tying the columns into the slab and will keep the “business” end of the bracket above the concrete. It does take a little more rebar than running through the columns, however the net extra investment is minimal.

Not interested in placing your new post frame building’s columns into the ground? Your building can be designed for the columns to be bracket mounted!

This entry was posted in Footings, Columns, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Concrete and tagged , , , , , on by .

A Pole Building Basement?

Welcome to Ask the Pole Barn Guru – where you can ask questions about building topics, with answers posted on Mondays.  With many questions to answer, please be patient to watch for yours to come up on a future Monday segment.  If you want a quick answer, please be sure to answer with a “reply-able” email address.

Email all questions to: PoleBarnGuru@HansenPoleBuildings.com

 DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Do you recommend perma columns vs. treated posts? John in Shelbyville, IN DEAR JOHN: I just do not see the practicality in shipping a heavy chunk of concrete, with a bracket embedded into it, across the country. Plus, once it arrives, it has to be manhandled and properly placed into the hole.

Me – I will stick with pressure preservative treated columns embedded in the ground – and then do a mono-pour around them. Concrete has a binding value to compacted native soil as a bonus.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Is it possible to build a pole building over a full basement and what special precautions would that entail? Beverly in Wayne, NE

DEAR BEVERLY:  I happen to live on a lake, which is nestled into a mountain valley. For the most part, the parcels of land around the lake tend to be very narrow and very steep (only so much lake frontage exists, therefore the narrow lots). In my case, the lot gains well over 100 feet of elevation from lake to back, over the 250 feet of depth.

 With the lake as my “front” yard, on the back of my lot is a pole building upon which the site had 12 feet of grade change in 40 feet. The solution was to excavate to the lowest point, then construct a foundation on the “high” sides. In my case, we used eight inch insulated Styrofoam blocks, poured with concrete – one wall being 12 feet tall, and the other sides appropriately steeped to match the land contours. Steel brackets engineered to withstand moment (bending) forces were poured into the top of the walls to attach the pole building columns.

 The direct answer to your question is – yes. Whether a full basement, partial basement, or daylight basement (the last being closest to my particular case), pole buildings can be attached to any adequately designed foundation wall. We prefer to use wet set brackets (those embedded in the concrete wall at time of pour) as opposed to dry set brackets (those attached to the concrete wall with bolts) for a sturdier connection, but either one can be used. 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I live in Ottawa, Canada and I am interested in one of your building kits.  On your site it states that I would have to pick up the kit at a distribution location in the US or Canada.  Can you tell me where these distribution locations are and what size vehicle I would need to pick a kit up? JEFF

DEAR JEFF: Thank you very much for your interest in a new Hansen Pole Building. In all likelihood the closest pickup point would be at Messina, NY. Vehicle size and capacity will depend upon the dimensions of the building which would best fit your needs. Once you get a quote on the building you would like to have, I would better be able to let you know what type of trucking is needed.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

 

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Columns and tagged , , , on by .

How to Save Money on Pole Building Kits?

Welcome to Ask the Pole Barn Guru – where you can ask questions about building topics, with answers posted on Mondays.  With many questions to answer, please be patient to watch for yours to come up on a future Monday or Saturday segment.  If you want a quick answer, please be sure to answer with a “reply-able” email address.

Email all questions to: PoleBarnGuru@HansenPoleBuildings.com

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Is there something I can do myself that saves me a large amount of money? I don’t have time and equipment to do it all but can do some. SAVING IN SANDY

DEAR SAVING: Many builders like to do either all or nothing, or if they do give discounts for building owners doing a portion of the work, the discounts given are generally not equitable.

If looking to save a large amount of money, the best thing to do is to construct pole building kits yourself. Even better – throw a ‘barn raising’ weekend or two, gather up friends and friends of friends and see how quickly you can have a new pole building!

Complete pole building kits, with plans specific to your project as well as complete detailed instructions which include diagrams and actual photos, make the assembly simple enough for almost anyone. As pole buildings require little or no specialized equipment, they afford construction without the need to invest in expensive tools – virtually anything not on hand can be easily rented for just the time needed.

I hate to say it, but the largest amount of money you will spend – will be in any labor you hire done. If you want a concrete floor – this is one place I’d recommend having “the experts” do it. But otherwise, from digging the holes for the poles to the last screw or shingle on the roof is most economically done, by the homeowner. Or the homeowner and “friends”.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Looking for advice on 40x72x14 pole building. Specs are .60 treated 3ply laminate 6×6 posts every 8′. Engineered trusses every 8′. Roof purlins with saddle joist hangers. Wondering about notching the posts in the field-assuming almost impossible to notch in the center so just notch the side? Do you lose structural integrity by doing this? What size footing do you recommend-thinking 18″wide hole going 54″deep with 6-8″deep concrete poured footing on bottom, post set on top of cured concrete (how long do you have to let it cure before placing post on??)backfill with pea rock. When I entered info into footing calculator I got 23″diameter and 9″thick for footing?? Considered using Perma-column(spendy)since Morton now uses them(why?rotting posts?)to avoid any wood in ground but as long as using .60 (not.40) should be OK?(maybe even Sturdiwall but have read this approach may weaken strength of foundation?)Any professional advice is greatly appreciated!! STYMIED IN SIOUX FALLS

 DEAR STYMIED: My absolute, unequivocal advice… you would be best served to buy a complete post frame building kit package which is RDP (Registered Design Professional either architect or engineer) designed for your climactic conditions.

If you are insisting on “going it alone” by seat-of-the-pants engineering, make sure to purchase adequate insurance and confirm there is no waiver of coverage for not constructing an RDP designed building.

Moving forward….

Hopefully you are looking at glu-laminated building columns. If so, they can be ordered with the top several feet free of glue, which makes them far easier to notch. In most cases, notching in from one side as opposed to removal of the upper portion of the middle ply will not adversely affect the columns enough to cause a failure – this is one of the calculations which would be done by an RDP to confirm adequacy.

Now, if I may ask, if you entered loads into a footing calculator and the resultant was a 23” diameter footing, how is it you feel an 18” diameter footing would possibly work? Without knowledge of your soil conditions and roof loading, my gut instinct suggests there is no way an 18” footing will work – 24” diameter – maybe.

Your proposed design has made no provision to prevent the columns from uplifting, and backfilling with pea gravel is not going to help the situation. Might I suggest the columns be placed suspended in the holes eight inches or more from the bottom, and then do a monolithic pour which would result in 18-24 inches of concrete in the bottom of each hole (and surrounding the column).

The probability of a properly pressure preservative treated column rotting off in your life time, under normal use, would probably be less than your chances of being a lottery winner. I see no true advantage of perma-columns other than as a marketing tool.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Concrete, Concrete Cookie, Budget, Columns and tagged , , on by .
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