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Dragging Panels, Code Compliance, and “Some Assembly Required”

Today’s “ask the Pole Barn Guru” addresses reader questions about dragging steel panels over one another during installation, and the effects on the panels, a recommendation to consult a registered design professional in Michigan regarding footings, and if a Hansen Building is a “some assembly required” type of kit.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: So I am having a building put up. They drug the roof sheets across the other sheets so I’m concerned about the paint being scratched. But my main question is would you consider this acceptable? The picture isn’t the best but hopefully you can see what I’m talking about. I’m not saying what I don’t like as I want an honest opinion. Hopefully they come through. thank you for any advice you can give me. LEE in BEAVER CROSSING

DEAR LEE: This excerpt is from American Building Components 29 gauge steel roofing installation manual (most, if not all steel roll formers should have similar language):

“On job sites, reasonable care should be taken when handling painted surfaces during installation in order to protect the finish. Although the paint coating is tough and provides impact resistance, dragging panels across the surface of one another will almost certainly mar the finish.”

I would not consider dragging panels up a roof to be an acceptable installation. Sadly, your recourse is probably quite limited. It might be possible to have them post a bond to guarantee no adverse effects from panels being drug up roof – however chances are actual damage may not become evident for years, if not decades.

Although it should not affect structural integrity, random placement of screws going up roof leads me to believe installers had little or no prior experience. As you look up roof, screws should appear in a straight line.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m building a post frame barn and we like it so much as we move on with the project that I’m wanting to use part of the barn as a pole barn home. I used Permcolums 8ft on center and set them on a footer 24×13 inch poured concrete. I need to convince our inspector that the columns on my footings work. He would like a footing between each post. I’m wanting in floor heat and using R10 foam 250 around the sides and under the concrete. Is this a code compliance method? Thanks. KELLY in BROWN CITY

DEAR KELLY: Building Codes allow for residences to be supported by widely spaced piers. There is no structural rationale for a continuous footing or foundation not supporting a continuous load from above. Some jurisdictions in Michigan have enacted “rat wall” ordinances, however there is merit for them being other than concrete: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/06/rat-wall/. Here are some methods for rodent protection: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2021/03/rascally-rodents/.

My recommendation would be to engage services of a Registered Professional Michigan engineer who can evaluate your structure as built for structural sufficiency and provide sealed plans. A resource to find one would be: https://nfba.org/aws/NFBA/pt/sp/directory. Select “Designer” under What you are looking for.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Are these pole structures assembled on site or just a “kit-some assembly required”? THOMAS in SEBRING

DEAR THOMAS: They are complete building kits requiring assembly on site.

Your new building kit is designed for the average physically capable person, who can and will read and follow instructions, to successfully construct your own beautiful building shell, without extensive prior construction knowledge (and most of our clients do DIY – saving tens of thousands of dollars). We’ve had clients ranging from septuagenarians to fathers bonding with their teenage daughters erect their own buildings, so chances are – you can as well!

Your new building investment includes full multi-page 24” x 36” structural blueprints detailing the location and attachment of every piece (as well as suitable for obtaining Building Permits), the industry’s best, fully illustrated, step-by-step installation manual, and unlimited technical support from people who have actually built post frame buildings. Even better – it includes our industry leading Limited Lifetime Structural warranty!

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, Columns, Building Department, Roofing Materials, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Building Siding, Insulation, Footings, Pole Barn Questions, Professional Engineer and tagged perma-column, DIY, dragging panels, scratched steel, some assembly required, RDP, registered design professional, roof steel installation on March 1, 2023 by admin.

Footing Size? A “Reverse Barndominium?” and a Loft Bedroom?

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers questions about the footing size for an open car porch and why a person should use a registered design professional, building a “reverse barndominium” where one build a post frame shell around an existing structure, and if one can build a loft bedroom in a footprint of 20’x 30′.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am building an open car porch, the inside will be connected to another building and on the outside I planning on using 3 – 8 inch x 8 inch x 8 feet posts 12 feet apart. The open car porch area is 24ft x 24ft and the roof is 6 on 12 with 2 x 6 rafters and joists landing on the outside plate. What size footing will I need for each pole? JAY in MORGAN CITY

DEAR JAY: This is a question best answered by the Registered Professional Engineer who designed your building, as he or she will be able to do a complete analysis including soil bearing capacity, design wind speed and wind exposure. With columns only eight feet long, I am guessing you are planning on using wet set brackets into concrete piers https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/05/sturdi-wall-plus-concrete-brackets/. I would not be surprised to see piers up to three feet deep and two foot diameter in order to adequate resist uplift forces.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Are you aware of anyone ever building a “reverse barndominium”? Usually barndominiums are built shell (outside walls) first then the interior, but what about building entirely around an existing structure? I really want to buy this historic house built in 1861. It is currently gutted down to the dirt floors, needs a roof, garage, etc. Why not just enclose the whole thing and DIY the interior without dealing with the outside elements? The primary structure is 19’x38′, but the side structure is an additional 20′ (39′ total wide) with a 6/12 roof. The eave height is 15.5′ and about 20′ at the ridge. The basement is about 4′ deep. I could go 42′ wide with a structure and have the exterior posts completely outside of the current footprint. The lot is 60’x150′ and I’m looking at a 40×80-ish building with a second story.

Is this feasible or have I succumb to the Dunning-Kruger Effect? I have attached an image of my sketchup drawing to give a better idea of my concept.

Thank you great guru. I love your philosophy and transparency throughout your blog posts. I have learned a lot at the cost of otherwise being productive at work. JAMES in WESTON

DEAR JAMES: Thank you very much for your kind words, although I am not as certain your employer would be as happy with me 🙂

Perhaps surprisingly, you would be far from the first person to attempt such a project. Is is entirely doable and actually becomes very similar to what people do with a PEMB (Pre-engineered metal building aka red iron) or a weld up barndominium, where a shell is erected and a building is built inside of a building. You just happen to have your insides prebuilt!

Outside of my loyal readers, most have never heard of the Dunning-Kruger Effect (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/01/dunning-kruger-effect/)

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m interested in a residential building approximately 20ft x 30ft. How tall would the walls need to be to include a loft bedroom with headspace to approximately 4ft from the sides? JUDE in DUPONT

DEAR JUDE: I will answer your question from a standpoint of you getting best value for your investment – meaning using both floors from wall to wall.

Assuming a concrete slab-on-grade for main level, bottom of framed ceiling would be at 8′ 4-5/8″ this allows for 5/8″ drywall on ceiling and 1/2″ at bottom to be able to account for any variances in your building slab and to keep drywall from soaking up moisture from floor, plus 3-1/2″ for actual thickness of a nominal four inch thick slab.

I would recommend using premanufactured wood floor trusses between floors (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/09/floor-trusses/). Plan on a 20 inch thickness, plus 3/4″ for subflooring and 8′ 1-1/8″ putting bottom of roof trusses at 18′ 2-1/2″. In Pennsylvania I would recommend R-60 blown in attic insulation (just under 20 inches thick), resulting in needing a 20 foot eave height.

This entry was posted in Footings, Professional Engineer, Lofts, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Planning, Trusses and tagged barndominium, floor trusses, parallel flat chord trusses, footing size, loft bedroom, engineered building, RDP on February 17, 2020 by admin.

Typical Wall Bracing Details for Pole Barns

There are many ways to permanently brace walls of pole barn (post frame) buildings. Most of these methods are utilized in buildings not designed by a Registered Professional Engineer (RDP). A RDP who has a great deal of experience with post frame building intricacies would first be looking at a structural design to utilize steel siding and roofing’s shear strength.

Hansen Pole Buildings’ independent third-party engineers use values obtained from actual full scale testing of steel panels done under supervision and auspices of engineer Merl Townsend: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/08/this-is-a-test-steel-strength/. These test results, and those of other tests, are published in the NFBA (National Frame Building Association) Post-Frame Building Design Manual https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/03/post-frame-building-3/.

Recently reader JOSE from GONZALEZ asked:
“What are the typical wall bracing details for pole barns? Best locations?”

In utilizing steel skin strength, in many cases, needs for other wall bracing is eliminated. This makes for no extra expenses and ease of assembly. When wall bracing is needed, it is usually added closest to corners, where shear load forces are greatest.

For cases where strength of steel skin is not adequate to support loads, the International Building Code (IBC) provides for wall panels to be braced by adding either Oriented Strand Board (OSB) or plywood. This most often occurs when a wall (or walls) have large amounts of openings (doors and windows) or in cases where buildings are tall and narrow, or very long (usually width of three to four times building length). An engineer can determine the applicability of this as a design solution. Installation of added sheathing is generally fairly simple and requires (in most cases) minimal extra framing materials.

X bracing is often found in non-engineered buildings and can be either of dimensional lumber or steel strapping. Actual effectiveness of either of these is limited by an ability to add enough fasteners to resist loading: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2016/03/diagonal-bracing/.

Rural Renovators recently constructed a very tall post frame building where they utilized a triple set of 2×6 X bracing at building corners: https://www.facebook.com/ruralrenovators/videos/2089528207814164/

In any case, my recommendation for proper post frame building correct structural design is to only use plans designed by a RDP (engineer).

This entry was posted in Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure and tagged registered design professional, engineer, NFBA, Merle Townsend, lateral wall bracing, International Building Code, RDP on October 22, 2019 by admin.

New Pole Buildings Cost Money

New Buildings Cost Money

As I recently mentioned, I have joined several Barndominium Facebook groups. It has proven to be enlightening and has given me a great deal of information towards authoring a book or books on Post Frame Barndominiums.

In asking for input on chapters for my endeavor, I had one person respond with:

“Maybe you could have a chapter on how building a new building cost money. And that you shouldn’t expect other people have spent money to just give you their plans and all their knowledge that they spent their own hard-earned money on to get.”

Yes, building a new building of any sort is going to be an investment (not a cost or expense) of both time and money. Done correctly, it absolutely should be.

I have my opinions of plans sharing – everyone’s circumstances, wants and needs are individual. Copying or borrowing someone else’s plans with an idea they will be ideal for you is totally misguided. If their plans are sealed by a RDP (Registered Design Professional – architect or engineer) as they SHOULD BE, it is unlawful (other than with RDP’s written permission) to either share them or to use them anywhere other than upon the originally intended site (not to mention it could come with serious, if not fatal, design deficiencies due to variances in load conditions).

I have been freely sharing my four decades of construction and post frame knowledge through writing blogs and my “Ask The Pole Barn Guru™” column since 2011. I do significant research and reading, besides reaching into a wealth of good to use and bad to avoid learned from personally participating in around 20,000 post frame building projects. Whether you are considering a new building, already have one and it has challenges, are a contractor, design professional or Building Official – I will gladly assist.

Why?

Because I care deeply about our industry – post frame building. Every properly done post frame building adds to the credibility of post frame as becoming a method of choice for homes and barndominiums. Whenever there is a failure or someone is dissatisfied with their end result I am saddened, as these circumstances are easily avoidable.

This entry was posted in Budget, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Design, About The Pole Barn Guru, Barndominium, Building Department, Pole Barn Planning and tagged architect, building official, load conditions, post frame building, RDP, registered design professional on June 19, 2019 by admin.

Free Post Frame Foundation Building Calculator

Free Post-Frame Building Foundation Engineering Calculator

No, such a thing as a free post-frame building foundation engineering calculator does not exist. However there always seems to be someone out there who is in search of “engineering for free”.

Reader KELLY writes:

“Guru,

Do you have a link to a pole foundation engineering calculator?

Looking for column depth / diameter for:

40x60x14

10 ft column spacing

35 PFS load

115 wind load.

No floor for constraint.

thanks.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru responds:

There is no such thing as a “pole foundation engineering calculator” therefore, there is also no link to one. The design of post frame (pole) building foundations is one which is best left in the hands of RDPs (Registered Design Professionals – architects or engineers). When provided with all the pertinent information about your proposed building, they can design not only a structurally sound column embedment, but also your entire structure (which I whole heartedly recommend).

You’ve provided some of the information a RDP would require, but I will expand upon it:

Will the building have adequate sheathing (which could be roll formed steel roofing and siding) to transfer wind loads from roof to ground through endwalls? And will the sheathing be adequately fastened to underlying frame to take advantage of sheathing stiffness? If yes, diaphragm design can be utilized in your building design.

The difference in forces carried by sidewall columns with and without an adequate diaphragm is a factor of 4! If diaphragm design cannot be utilized, expect significantly larger columns, deeper holes and more concrete around columns.

What type of soil is at building site? Strength and stiffness of your soil will impact both depth and diameter of holes.

How are you measuring your 14′? It should be from bottom of pressure preservative treated splash plank, to underside of roofing at sidewalls. It does make a difference.

Does your building have overhangs?

What is the roof slope?

What is wind exposure at your site? The difference in force against columns between Exposure B and Exposure C is roughly 20%.

In the event you are not interested in procuring services of a RDP, the NFBA (National Frame Building Association) has available a Post-Frame Design Manual and you could attempt to do calculations yourself. For more information please see: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/03/post-frame-building-3/.

Of course you could always invest in a fully engineered post frame building kit package. Besides engineer sealed blueprints and calculations, you would also get materials delivered to your site and a multi-hundred page Construction Manual to guide you through to a successful completion.

This entry was posted in Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Trusses, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn holes, Pole Barn Design and tagged sheathing, building site soil, wind exposure, RDP, roof slope, NFBA, overhangs, post frame building kit package on February 22, 2019 by admin.

What is a Building Official?

What is a Building Official, and what is their Scope of Work?

The average potential new post frame owner (as well as most building contractors) has little or no idea of what a Building Official’s scope of work truly is. Sean Shields and Kirk Grundahl, P.E. (Professional Engineer) recently published an article in SBC Magazine in regards to this very subject. At the end of this article, I will tell you why this is so important.

I will include here only excerpts from the authors’ summary:

“The following simply summarizes what the model code states, as it is adopted into law:

A building official’s role is to administer and enforce the adopted building code, nothing more and nothing less.

The building official shall examine all aspects of the construction project for compliance with the specific charging language and scope of the section of the code being evaluated.

If anything about the construction project does not conform to the requirements of pertinent laws, the building official shall, if there are any non-conforming issues, reject in writing, stating the reasons therefor.

Implied here is that the written rejection shall provide:

Specific evidence of non-conformance, and
Enough information for the owner of the building to be able to cure the non-conformance based on the evidence provided, and
A clear and easy to understand pathway to cure the deficiency.

The building official is also authorized and directed to enforce the provisions of this code. The building official shall have the authority to render interpretations of this code and to adopt policies and procedures in order to clarify the application of its provisions. Such interpretations, policies and procedures shall comply with the intent and purpose of this code.

Implied here is the fact that not everything needed to enforce the code is going to be written in the code. Hence, interpretations will need to be made with respect to what meets the intent of the code. This is generally and easily undertaken as follows:

A registered design professional (RDP) or approved source provide an accepted engineering analysis or research report and signs and certifies their belief that the issue being dealt with conforms to the code.
A research report is provided by an approved source.
A research report also known as a technical evaluation or accepted engineering analysis is provided by an ANSI ISO/IEC 17065 Accredited Product Certification Body

Obviously, the best-case scenario for building official authorized interpretations is to have them based by an RDP that signs, certifies and seals conformance with the building code provisions. Why?

This says that the given RDP takes responsibility for their engineering evaluation scope of work.
The work of the RDP is under the authority of a legal entity generally called a Licensing Board and by law has to work in their area of expertise or be subject to fines and loss of their license.
The work of the RDP is also generally insured through professional liability insurance.

As a final analogy, a building official is identical to a police officer, where all of us desire that the police officer follow the rule of laws as written. In other words, we would not want a police officer to do the following:

A police officer picks me up for driving under the influence.
My hair was just dyed scarlet and gray because I am an Ohio State fan.
The police officer thinks this is weird and says you must be intoxicated.
The police officer handcuffs me, takes me down to the station, and puts me in jail.

Preferably, the police officer would do a definitive science-based test to ensure I was indeed intoxicated before putting me in jail.

Thankfully, all professional building officials we know base their decisions:

On following the rule of law, and
Using accepted engineering as the basis of interpretations when needed, and
Provide evidence of non-conformances to the law, and
When non-conformances exist, provide an easy to understand pathway to cure it.”

I told you I would tell you why this is important – because a building official cannot merely say something is wrong. He or she is required to put any non-conforming issue in writing and why. And, most importantly, provide an easy to understand method to solve the issue.

This entry was posted in About The Pole Barn Guru, Building Department, Professional Engineer and tagged building department, RDP, Accredited Product Certification Body, Kirk Grundahl, SBC Magazine on October 30, 2018 by admin.

How to Frame a Reverse Gable Porch

Reverse gable porches are an excellent way to protect any door from effects of weather – specifically rain and snow. I personally feel they are an underutilized great feature.

For more reading about reverse gable porches: http://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/07/reverse-gable-porch/.

Today’s article has been sparked by reader DARRELL in ATLANTA who writes:

“How to frame a reverse gable over a door on an existing pole barn. Thank you.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru responds:

Ultimately this will be a question you will need to have answered by a RDP (Registered Design Professional – architect or engineer) who provided sealed plans for your original structure, as they will have to verify ability of existing structure to support loads imposed by this reverse gable porch.

Most reverse gable porches are attached to a wall below the existing roofline. Structural design of new roof system will need to be able to accommodate weight of snow drifting against existing wall or sliding off from roof (depending upon whether reverse gable will be added to endwall or sidewall).

Siding will need to be removed from existing wall in area of reverse gable. A truss will need to be placed against this wall – usually it will be easiest for span of truss (and width of reverse gable) to be from one existing roof supporting column to another. If reverse gable will have overhangs, then this truss against existing wall needs tails 1-1/2 inches longer (measured horizontally) than width of overhang, in order to attach fascia boards. 2×4 (wide face to wind) siding backing needs to be added to this wall, approximately two inches above truss and following same pitch.

Your RDP can specify connection of truss to existing columns. It may be necessary to add a bearing block below the truss heels, in order to adequately support roof loads.

Two new columns will support new gable parallel to the wall including your door. For sake of preventing things from running into them, they should be no smaller than 6×6, and be fully concreted into the ground. A single truss will be notched into face of these columns 1-1/2″ opposite from existing main wall. If reverse gable has no overhang, neither will this truss. If endwall overhangs, this end truss attachment will be lowered (in comparison to main wall truss) by thickness of purlins, adjusted for roof slope. A 2×4 siding backing should be nailed to face of both top and bottom chords of this truss.

Depending upon span between these two trusses and roof loads 2×4, 2×6 or even larger purlins should be placed edgewise. They will butt into the side of truss against existing building and be attached with hangers. If no endwall overhang, attachment to opposite truss will be the same. If an endwall overhang will be included, then purlins run over second truss and are attached to top of it with Simpson H1 brackets. With an endwall overhang, solid 2x blocking will be placed between purlins, to prevent rotation. Solid blocking should be held 3/4″ out past 2×4 siding backing. With enclosed overhangs, soffit will attach to this solid blocking. With open overhangs, endwall J Channel will butt up against blocking.

Fascia boards and fly rafters of same dimension as purlins will need to be installed, if there are overhangs.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Structure, Trusses and tagged Simpson H1 hangers, RDP, fly rafters, reverse gable, endwall overhang on October 17, 2018 by admin.

Oklahoma, Is it OK?

Oklahoma, Is It OK?

Last weekend my lovely bride and I attended an event hosted by her first husband’s sister and her husband. Event purpose was to celebrate this couple’s upcoming 40th wedding anniversary.

Adding to this fun, at least for me, was a new Hansen Pole Building being erected onsite (D.I.Y. husband doing some nice workmanship). Like most new construction this attracted a fair number of looky-lous who wanted to check everything out and offer their ‘armchair expert’ opinions.

One of these lookers was aforementioned husband’s brother, who (as I later found out) had his old pole barn collapse due to snow last Winter. Rather than contact us about a replacement building, he ended up buying a post frame building to be delivered from Oklahoma (keep in mind we are in Northeast South Dakota).

Now I happen to know these folks in Oklahoma who provided this kit package. I hadn’t visited their website in quite some time, so I went browsing.

Here are some things I found:

“Building codes and permits

In our recent annual post-frame construction industry survey, one of our questions to builders was about code enforcement in their areas. Of the 134 post-frame builders who answered this question, 55% said they have needed on occasion to change their construction to meet a code. Codes can be problematic if not clearly understood. Start with your local planning and zoning office or your local building inspector. They will be able to tell you the standards for your community.

Know the rules in your area:

Some cities will not allow a steel skin building – you must have a brick veneer.
Almost all residential areas will have a setback requirement, meaning the building must be so many feet from the property line.
Many neighborhoods have a restriction on how tall you can make the building.
Many areas want to inspect a building at each stage of construction, starting with the depth of the holes, then they will inspect the wooden framework, then the completed structure.
Some communities insist on bolting the trusses in place, adding hurricane clips, beefing up the top plate, digging the holes deeper and providing longer poles or adding gravel or a concrete footer in the hole.

Bonus Tip: Some local code expectations may seem over-engineered when it comes to equating cost with necessity. In our view, codes generally foster a better quality building and we have found it is best to give the inspector what he or she wants. Life, and your project, will go easier that way.”

Now I agree total with starting a journey to a new post frame building with visits to your local Planning (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/01/planning-department-3/) and Building (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/01/building-department-checklist/) Departments.

What amazed me was “55% said they have needed on occasion to change their construction to meet a code”. Thinking back over nearly 40 years of post frame buildings, I can only think of two sets of circumstances causing a change in construction to meet Code. First – not submitting plans prepared by a RDP (Registered Design Professional – architect or engineer), second would be not having correct design criteria (snow, wind and seismic loads, along with frost depth) provided.

In my humble opinion, a majority of these builders who had to change their construction were probably not building Code conforming structures! Think about this if you are considering investing in a post frame building from ANY builder.

While some jurisdictions will not allow steel roofing and/or siding, I have yet to have any demand a “brick veneer”. There are numerous alternatives to steel, they just happen to be less economical and less durable.

Only insistence from communities regarding how buildings should be assembled comes from those who have prescriptive requirements for non-engineered pole buildings. Read about challenges of prescriptive requirements here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/02/prescriptive-requirements/.

Path to best value for one’s post frame building investment nearly always involves having RDP sealed plans. Make everyone’s life easier (you, your building kit provider, any contractors, as well as your Building Department) and insist upon only using RDP sealed building plans. Headaches saved, will be yours!

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, Pole Building Comparisons, Building Department, Pole Barn Planning, Professional Engineer and tagged engineer, planning and zoning department, building codes, RDP, registered design professional, architect on October 9, 2018 by admin.

What Size Posts Should I Use?

What Size Posts Does My Building Need and How Deep Should They Be?

Reader ANONYMOUS in BENTON writes:

“1. If my building has 16 posts and posts are 12 feet apart do I need 4×6’s or 6×6’s?
2. If the plan shows 16 feet above grade how much do I need underground?
3. If the posts are set 12 feet apart will two 2x12s glued together support a truss system with a total length of 36 feet?”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru responds:

While I appreciate your questions, we as a company and me as an individual do not provide free engineering services. In answer to your questions:

1) Without knowing the full dimensions of your building, including roof slope and overhangs (if any), if the columns will be adequately tied into a concrete floor, as well as your site’s snow load, design wind speed and exposure, seismic zone as well as the dead loads which will be carried by your building there is no possible way for me or any RDP (Registered Design Professional – engineer or architect) to be able to answer this.

2) The depth of the columns into the ground should be shown on your engineered building plans (you do mention you have plans). At a minimum the holes should be no less than 40″ deep and must extend below the frost line. Ultimately the depth and diameter will need to be determined by the RDP in consideration of the factors listed in (1) above, as well as designing for the ability to adequately prevent uplift.

3) Since I would use double trusses which bear directly upon the columns, there would be no need to use any other type of dimensional lumber to provide headers for a truss system. Again, this is where your RDP can design to adequately provide an engineered system to support the trusses.

My best advice, since I am guessing you are somewhat floundering in this, is to invest in a fully engineered post frame building kit package which includes plans sealed by a RDP and designed specifically for your building, at your site. It just isn’t worth trying to avoid the small expense into a proper design – especially when the lives of the occupants depend upon it.

Here are some other articles which pertain directly to this subject and should be read: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/12/free-pole-barn-plans/ and https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/11/dont-engineering-fool/

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Trusses, Professional Engineer, Columns, Lumber, Pole Barn Questions and tagged structural headers, columns depth, RDP, registered design professional, roof slope, engineered building plans, Uplift on July 13, 2018 by admin.

Adding a Lean-to on a Pole Barn

In six years and nearly 1500 articles written it is hard for me to believe I have actually overlooked the topic of a lean-to being added to a pole barn!

For the biblical readers amongst you, “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find” (Matthew 7:7). Well, good reader DANNY in DANA is asking:

“I want to build on a Lean-to on my pole barn and have really having time getting information online, nothing address this project that I’m trying to get started on?”

Mike the Pole Barn writes:

What exactly is a lean-to anyway?

According to the sum of all human knowledge (www.Wikipedia.com) a lean-to is a type of simple structure originally added to an existing building with the rafters “leaning” against another wall.

Custom Designed Pole Barn Wikipedia may consider a lean-to a simple structure, however there is far more involved than may meet the eye. Before diving deep into adding a lean-to to an existing pole barn (post frame building) a competent Registered Design Professional (RDP – engineer or architect) should be engaged to determine the adequacy of the existing structure to support the lean-to. Failure to do so can result in catastrophic failures – causing injury or death.

Before I ramble on further, this article is not an engineering recommendation and should not be considered as such. Please utilize only services which can provide RDP sealed drawings for your project.

Why bother? It is just a simple roof!

Here are just a few considerations:

The footings beneath the existing wall columns need to be verified for adequate diameter to support the weight of the existing building, the lean-to and the weight of imposed climactic loads such as snow.

Even if the newly proposed lean-to is just a roof, the existing wall columns need to be adequately sized to support a greater surface of roof for horizontally acting wind forces. If the lean-to is enclosed on the low eave side, the new lean-to roof outside columns must now carry the wind load against the top half of the new wall plus the entire roof!

A change in roof pitch between the existing building and the lean-to, or the lean-to high side being lower than the existing structure can result in snow drifting and snow slide off loads which need to be carefully considered.

If the existing building has trusses or rafters supported by a truss carrier (header between the trusses) it is unlikely this carrier will be adequate to support rafters being attached to it.

Come back next Tuesday for …the rest of the story on adding a lean-to onto an existing pole building.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Professional Engineer, Sheds, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design and tagged professional engineer, RDP, footings, pole building lean-to on June 22, 2018 by admin.

Advice on a Hay Barns, and Registered Design Professionals (Use them)!

Today Mike advises on the Post Frame construction of Roof Only Hay Barns, and the need to use a Registered Design Professional.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: You have a page showing roof only hay barns. There are two photos, one which shows a partially enclosed hay barn. I am very interested in this for my ranch…..what are its dimensions? I will need full walls along three sides, and a partial wall, like the one you show in the photo along the front side. DAVE in PETALUMA

DEAR DAVE: Rather than working off from the dimensions of a building which best fit some prior client’s wants and needs, you will be far better ahead to work with one of the Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designers to come up with the dimensions and features which will best fit with your budget. If you can do a design which has some or all of both of the narrow (peaked) endwalls enclosed from roofline to the ground, it will normally be the most cost effective.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What diameter holes do I dig for my post when my barn is 44’x32’? Trusses are spanning the 44’ way. TERRY in COLUMBIA CITY

DEAR TERRY: The Registered Design Professional (RDP – architect or engineer) who designed your building and sealed the plans for you will have called out the depth and diameter of the column holes as well as concrete footing and encasement requirements.

He or she takes into account all of the climactic loads placed upon your building – wind, snow and seismic, along with the allowable soil bearing capacity of your site in making the determination. The other factors they will have taken into account include the spacing of the columns, eave height, roof slope as well as the dead loads the building must support (not only the weight of the building as proposed to be constructed, but also future loads such as wall and ceiling finishes).

If by some chance you do not have a RDP involved in your project – go hire one now, it is money well spent. Or, better yet, invest in an engineered post frame building kit package which will come with complete plans.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We are building a pole barn but have decided to use timber frame scissor trusses in the open area where the trusses will be visible. Three trusses, made from 8×10 timbers will be in a area that is fully open. The other 3 trusses will be prefab, “regular”, as they will not be visible (one inside interior wall and other 2 at gable ends.
I’m having trouble finding a way to attach the purlins to the timbers in a way that the will not have exposed Simpson seismic and hurricane hangers. There must be a hanger that can be used with ‘simple’ blocking that will attach the purlins to the top of the timbers and still create a look as if the purlins are simply resting on the timbers.
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance for your advice! FAITH in SALEM

DEAR FAITH: This is a question which is best posed to the RDP (Registered Design Professional – architect or engineer) who designed your building and provided the sealed blueprints for you to build from. I am not aware of an engineered hanger which will do what you are looking to accomplish, however there may be a direction in which to head for a solution. By predrilling holes through the purlins from narrow edge to narrow edge, it might be possible to utilize a number of very long spikes or drive screws which could provide the needed resistance to uplift and seismic forces. In order to have adequate area for connectors, it might take going to a three or four inch wide purlin, which may turn out to work well aesthetically with your timber framed trusses. There will need to be blocking placed on top of the trusses, between the purlins to prevent rotation.

This entry was posted in Pole Building Comparisons, Pole Barn Planning, Trusses, Professional Engineer and tagged RDP, engineer of record, Roof Only, hay barn, scissor truss on June 11, 2018 by admin.

How Not to do a Post Frame Sheer Wall

How Not to Do a Post Frame Shear Wall

Reader DAVID in MIDDLETON writes:

“Hi we are currently building a 40/72 pole barn. We are wrapping the bottom 4 feet in OSB for sheer strength along with sheeting the roof with osb. We want to insulate the walls and put a drop ceiling in the pole barn to fully insulate it later this year. What do we need to do now for ventilation while we are building it to make sure we don’t have condensation issues later.”

Whilst friend David is writing about one issue, he is throwing out a bone as to why self-engineered post frame buildings are not always the best route to go. David is well intentioned, however his design solution would result in added expense without added benefits.

Always (may I repeat Always) construct only post frame (pole) buildings which are designed by a RDP (Registered Design Professional – engineer or architect) specifically for your building upon your site. You will always get piece of mind and usually the RDP will save you more money than what you invested for their design work.

Here is my response to David:

Before we get to discussing your question, a few words about your design.

Wrapping the bottom four feet in OSB is going to do little or nothing to improve wind sheer resistance. In order to be effective as a sheer wall, the OSB needs to run from the splash board up to either the eave girt on the sidewall or the bottom chord of the truss on the endwall. All panel edges need to be blocked with 2x material. The shear panels should be no less than a 1:4 ratio (one foot of shear panel width per four feet of height) and ideally 1:2. On the roof, make sure to use at least 30# felt between the OSB and steel roofing and locate the roof screws so as they go into the underlying purlins, not merely into OSB.

Back to the question at hand…..

Your building should have vented soffits, of at least 18 inches in width to provide an adequate air intake. Trusses should be fabricated with raised heels – ideally two inches higher than the thickness of the attic insulation. Take care not to block the airflow from the soffit with the attic insulation. Vent the ridge.

Pour the slab on grade only over a well sealed vapor barrier, otherwise excess moisture will enter the building from the ground beneath the building. Also, the slab will need to be sealed – not as good as the vapor barrier route, but it is better than doing nothing.

Completely fill the wall cavity with insulation. Unfaced batt insulation can be used, however BIBs will be a fair superior design solution. Read more about BIBs here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/11/bibs/.

Either choice of wall insulation requires a clear visqueen vapor barrier on the inside. Make certain to seal any seams, rips or tears. There should not be a vapor barrier between the ceiling framing and ceiling materials.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Ventilation, Professional Engineer and tagged RDP, registered design professional, Ventilation, wind sheer resistance, vented soffits on April 27, 2018 by admin.

My Response: Why We Need Building Codes

As promised, here is my response to the Coeur d’Alene Press article of December 5, 2017 (exactly as I wrote in the comments portion following the newspaper article regarding adoption of building codes):

I will first qualify myself – I attended the University of Idaho in architecture. I was a manager or owner in the prefabricated wood truss business for over 20 years. I’ve been a registered general contractor in four states, In 1987 I joined ICBO (they write the Codes) as well as ASAE (American Society of Agricultural Engineers) and was a sitting member on the committees which established the huge majority of the structural design criteria for post frame (pole) buildings. I have had the privilege of being involved in the structural design of nearly 20,000 buildings in every U.S. state. I am a contributing writer for Rural Builder magazine.

In my humble opinion – anyone who wants to “run bare” without Building Code minimum standards being applied to their new structures is out of their freaking mind.

The Building Codes are designed specifically to protect the safety and lives of those who occupy (or are in the vicinity of) structures. The Code requirements are ‘minimum’ standards, which are just scraping by – however something is better than nothing. For residential occupancies, the risk (under Code) is a once in every 50 year probability of the design loads for a given home to be exceeded! And yet there are some who would do away with even this minimal amount of protection.

I am not at all an advocate of governmental intervention, however only a fool acts as their own engineer. I deal, on a daily basis, with challenges posed from new building owners who have had under designed buildings constructed in jurisdictions which do not require structural plan reviews.

Mr. Tyler’s concern about homes having been built on unstable ground is not the fault of the Code, but the fault of the agencies which issued the permits. A geotechnical study should be done for the proposed site of any new structure – this allows the RDP (Registered Design Professional – architect or engineer) who designs the structure to have adequate information to be able to properly address foundation challenges, before they become foundation issues. The Code does not mandate engineered soils reports.

As to length of warranty provided by builders – an educated new building owner will look for a builder who offers an extended warranty. This, again, is not a function of the Code.

Having accurate information about snow loads is crucial to proper structural design. The 2015 edition of Ground Snow Loads for Idaho was produced by the Department of Civil Engineering at the University of Idaho. Based upon 31 more years of snowfall study than the previously used document – it appears Ground Snow Loads in Kootenai County should range from 43 to 100 psf (pounds per square foot) depending upon one’s location within the county.

Several factors go into calculation of Ps (sloped roof snow load) from Pg (ground snow load) including exposure to wind, is structure heated or not, importance of building, slope of roof and roofing material. In many instances the calculated Ps load is going to be higher than the currently accepted 40 psf. Will this add to construction costs? Yes. Will it help prevent failures and possible loss of life? Yes.

What is the value of even a single life?

Rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water, my advice is to require every single building to be designed per current Code to include plans which are sealed by a Registered Design Professional.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, About The Pole Barn Guru, Building Department, Pole Barn Structure, Professional Engineer and tagged RDP, registered design professional, snow loads, geotechnical study on December 14, 2017 by admin.

Overhead Door Columns in Pole Barn Enclosure

No Columns for Overhead Doors

There are a few clients out there who leave parts of one or more walls open, with the idea of enclosing them at a later date. Most often this is done with the idea of being able to save money, however it is not always much of a money saver, especially if done wrong.

Here is just one example of why fully enclosed is a bargain compared to three sided: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/03/three-sided-building/.

Reader NATHAN from MOUNT VERNON writes:

“I have an existing pole building that is 36 by 36 (12′ spacing on all columns) and is 16′ at the front, 20 at the next column back, 16 again at the second column and 12 at the rear of the structure. It is only sided on two sides (back 12′ wall and one side). I’m looking at finishing the building out with three 14ft doors on the front, but no columns were installed for this purpose. The concrete poured for the existing columns will prevent me from having proper footing if I put in new columns as in a new build. Can I bolt the new columns to the existing ones (Blocking and 5/8’s galvanized threaded rod) and have the bottom in a post base of suitable size and strength. As there is no concrete floor in the structure at this point I was also thinking of increasing the slap thickness in these areas and adding rebar. Your help is greatly appreciated Nathan.”

Nathan happens to be in a part of the country which requires Building Permits for most everything. At some point in time he is going to have to have a Registered Design Professional involved (RDP – architect or engineer) as his Building Official is going to want to see an engineer’s seal on the plans for the remodel.

There are numerous possibilities the RDP may take for a design solution. To keep in mind, these columns will be supporting no roof load, so it is merely a case of having them be adequate in size to resist wind loads, as well as the door itself.

While Nathan’s idea probably works, it might be easiest to mount the columns needed for the overhead doors into appropriately designed column brackets: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/01/concrete-brackets/. A header can be run from one roof supporting column to the next to stabilize the top of the columns.

Before getting into a situation such as Nathan’s, research all of the options available. You might be able to enclose the building fully for little or no extra investment. As another alternative, financing is available which (with moderately reasonable credit) could allow some or all of your new building to be funded from a third party source with affordable monthly payments.

Check into your financing options today: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/financing/

This entry was posted in Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Building Department, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure and tagged pole building, building department, pole building financing, RDP, registered design professional on July 6, 2017 by admin.

ASCE Changes in 2017

ASCE/SEI 7 Minimum Design Loads for Buildings and Other Structures

The times, they keep a changing, and as they do Building Codes and Building Design becomes increasingly more complex. My long time readers have read my preaching about why all buildings should be designed by Registered Design Professionals (RDP – architects or engineers) to insure new construction meets with the requirements and provisions of the Code.

The 2016 edition of ASCE Minimum Design Loads and Associated Criteria for Buildings and Other Structures will be available in early 2017. This edition provides the most up-to-date and coordinated loading standard for structural design. Also with improved coordination and routine updates, ASCE 7-16 includes many significant changes.

New seismic maps reflect the updated National Seismic Hazard Maps, including requirements for the region surrounding Las Vegas, Nevada, to address local concerns. The basis for the increase was developed and supported by the State of Nevada Geologist’s office.

New wind speed maps which result in reduced wind speeds for much of the country and clarify the special wind study zones, including new maps for Hawaii. Also new maps for Risk Category IV separate from Category III.

In my humble opinion, the wind speeds expressed in ASCE 7-10 were at times unrealistically high in comparison to actual historical measures. This resulted, in some cases, in added expense to new building owners – which they were not given a choice in accepting or declining.

New regional snow data generated by state Structural Engineers Associations in Colorado, Oregon, New Hampshire, Washington and other mountainous states, which is now directly referenced and eliminates many, older site-specific Case Study zones.

New provisions for performance fire design.

An entirely new chapter with tsunami design provisions, which is important to west coast states, Alaska and Hawaii.

Full coordination with referenced material standards within ASCE 7-16, to ensure they are the same as those which will be referenced by the upcoming 2018 International Codes.

Consistent with revisions to all editions of the ASCE 7 standard, some of the revisions will cause increases and some will cause decreases in the cost of construction for an overall project. In fact, the variability of the impacts on construction resulting from different hazards may be compounding or may negate the effects. The cost impact for each significant change to ASCE 7-16 has been considered.

Please keep in mind, all versions of ASCE 7 and the International Building Codes are establishing minimum requirements for structural design. It is this author’s recommendation to always err on the side of caution when selecting criteria for climactic loading. Often increases can be made in design loadings with little or no cost to the overall building project. Those contemplating a new post frame building are best to inquire as to the extra investment (if any) to design for greater loads.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, Building Department, Pole Barn Planning, Professional Engineer, RV Storage and tagged tsunami design, RDP, registered design professional, National Seismic Hazard Maps, ASCE Minimum Design Loads on December 27, 2016 by admin.

How Should I Do Knee Braces?

Welcome to Ask the Pole Barn Guru – where you can ask questions about building topics, with answers posted on Mondays. With many questions to answer, please be patient to watch for yours to come up on a future Monday segment. If you want a quick answer, please be sure to answer with a “reply-able” email address.

Email all questions to: PoleBarnGuru@HansenPoleBuildings.com

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Do you guys have any ideas or pictures on how one might want to finish off a pole building with knee braces? Thanks, GARY

DEAR GARY: Thank you very much for your question.

Our designs do not utilize knee braces, you can read why not here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/blog/2012/01/post-frame-construction-knee-braces/

Your question is probably best addressed to the RDP (Registered Design Professional – engineer or architect) who originally designed the building, as they may have one or more of these issues with knee braces:

Not designed to support dead loads such as framing being placed between them to support a finished angled ceiling; having too much flexibility to support gypsum wallboard without cracking it; if adding a fairly rigid covering (such as OSB or plywood) making the assembly too stiff for the trusses to carry the imposed loads.

If you can stand the look – I’d suggest staining or painting the knee braces, as you will not negatively impact the structure.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru
DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello! What is a walk door? PAUL

DEAR PAUL: Also known as an entry or man door (or being politically correct a “person door”), is a pre-hung, hinged door allowing for access into or egress from a building by means of turning a lockset or pushing a “panic bar”. Most popular size is 36 inches in width by 6’8” in height. 48 inch and double doors offering a 72 inch width are also available as standard sizes.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I used too many screws in my siding on my Hansen Pole Barn. I need more to finish. Where can I purchase 1000 pearl gray 12x 1.5 screws? Dave

DEAR DAVE: It does happen every once in a while, however using too many is structurally better than not enough. Please contact Justine@HansenPoleBuildings.com and she will get your extra screws on the way!

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Building Styles and Designs and tagged RDP, registered design professional, powder coated screws, entry door, man door, walk door on March 16, 2015 by admin.

Storage in Trusses

Welcome to Ask the Pole Barn Guru – where you can ask questions about building topics, with answers posted on Mondays. With many questions to answer, please be patient to watch for yours to come up on a future Monday or Saturday segment. If you want a quick answer, please be sure to answer with a “reply-able” email address.

Email all questions to: PoleBarnGuru@HansenPoleBuildings.com

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My shop is in a 30×40 pole barn. I would like to put storage up in the trusses, and have some of the shelves that hang from the ceiling also (really there is no ceiling right now, just the trusses and roof). The trusses span the 30ft and I am worried about putting too much weight on them. I really would rather not have any supports in the middle of my floor…I was wondering if I could just sister up to the truss with some 2x6s or bigger to strengthen them…or should I just limit my upper storage? ONLY IN OHIO

DEAR ONLY: Unless specifically ordered for light storage loading, pole building trusses are rarely constructed so as to support any weight from their bottom chords other than limited electrical and lighting.

As you are considering “beefing up” the existing trusses, you should consult with the company which manufactured the trusses. There is typically a stamp on every truss with the truss company’s name on it. For a nominal fee, they can usually provide an engineered “repair” to upgrade your trusses.

In the event the truss company cannot be located, a Registered Design Professional (RDP – engineer or architect) should be hired to design a repair for you.

Only with one of these two solutions would I be able to recommend placing anything for storage in the truss system.

An alternative may be to build a raised “loft” floor in the building, at the level of, but not supported by the trusses. Again, this is a design best accomplished by a RDP.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, I am contractor assembling one of your pole building kit packages.
Would you send me details for flashing the building please?
Need:
-Corner flashing.
-End capping the cut ends at top.
-Where do the corrugated foam strips reside?
-Roof panel overhang on the sides and ends.
-Door trim flashing

Thank you, WISHING IN WASHINGTON

DEAR WISHING: All of these are covered in depth in the Hansen Buildings Construction Guide which was provided to your client after purchase. If your client has not shared it with you, you should ask him for the big white binder which was sent to him. Every piece of trim has a diagram showing what it is along with the code used by the steel company. Detailed drawings show where each piece goes on the building.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions and tagged RDP, registered design professional, architect, engineer, light storage loading, P.E., truss light storage on August 4, 2014 by admin.

Dear Pole Barn Guru: How to Replace a Sliding Door with an Overhead

New! The Pole Barn Guru’s mailbox is overflowing with questions. Due to high demand, he is answering questions on Saturdays as well as Mondays.

Welcome to Ask the Pole Barn Guru – where you can ask questions about building topics, with answers posted on Mondays. With many questions to answer, please be patient to watch for yours to come up on a future Monday or Saturday segment. If you want a quick answer, please be sure to answer with a “reply-able” email address.

Email all questions to: PoleBarnGuru@HansenPoleBuildings.com

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Have pole barn with sliding doors which are being wedged with weather changes. Looking for overhead door option for door that is 16′ wide and 12′ tall. Do you provide these and conversion labor to install? LOOKING IN LEBANON

DEAR LOOKING: Switching from sliding doors to an overhead door is going to pose a massive challenge to do correctly. This, in itself, is reason enough to spend the generally few dollars up front to use a sectional steel overhead door.

To begin with, the openings are not framed to the same size. It is easier to frame smaller than have to try to hack out and replace one or more columns. This will probably entail framing down to a finished hole 13’10” in width and 10’11” in height (measured from the top of the concrete floor) and installing a 14’ x 11’ residential overhead door. In order to get things looking right from the outside. All of the steel on this wall should be replaced, to give uniform color and no splices.

We can certainly provide a wall’s worth of steel siding, color matched powder coated screws, the appropriate steel trims, the overhead door and hardware to hang it. We are not contractors in any state, so we do not and cannot provide any labor to install.

You may want to look at what the real problem is – sounds like you have frost heaving, which is pushing the ground, or concrete, up at the location of the door. Just switching doors is not going to take away the problem.

If heave is the root cause of the problem, then remedial action can be taken by installing a French drain along the side of the building in front of the door. The sliding doors can also be taken off, and their overall height shortened enough to keep them from binding when the heave occurs.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How do I calculate what size of purlin I need based on my snow load, and the bay spacing of my pole barn? Thanks. CURIOUS IN CULDESAC

DEAR CURIOUS: From the ground, a roof purlin looks pretty simple – it is usually a piece of 2x material, fastened on top of or attached to the side of rafters or roof trusses. Roof sheathing (typically OSB – oriented strand board, plywood, or steel roofing) is then attached to the top of the purlins.

Purlins are not simple at all. They must carry all applied dead loads, live loads from snow as well as wind loads. They need to be checked for the ability to withstand bending forces (both compressive and from uplift), to not have too much deflection and be adequately attached at each end.

In snow country, purlins near the roof peak need to be checked for the added drift loads which are applied.

I could spend several thousand words and numerous pages to teach you how to be able to properly calculate the purlins for your individual case, however it is far more information than the average person wants to, or is able to, absorb.

The best recommendation – hire a registered design professional (RDP – architect or engineer) who has the ability to run the calculations to adequate design your purlins based upon the climactic (wind and snow) loads being imposed upon them at your building site. Or better yet, order a complete pole building kit package which has been designed by an RDP.

This entry was posted in Uncategorized, Pole Barn Questions and tagged purlin spacing, frost heave, wind load, RDP, snow load, overhead door on May 5, 2014 by admin.

Engineer Designed Pole Buildings

Thanks to a High School Student

My eldest step-son Jake, started a Facebook Group for students where he taught Physics at Lenore City in Tennessee. One of his students shared this with the group:

“Three professionals, a mathematician, a physicist and an engineer, took their final test for their job. The sole question in the exam was “how much is one plus one”.

The mathematician asked the receptionist for a ream of paper, two hours later, he said: I have proven it’s a natural number.

The physicist, after checking parallax error and quantum tables said: it’s between 1.9999999999, and 2.0000000001

The engineer quickly said: oh! It’s easy! It’s two,…. no, better make it three, just to be safe.”

While the average citizen probably does not think about it, they walk or drive by engineer designed structures every day. Why is it not a thought? Because engineered buildings rarely, if ever, fall down.

In the post frame building industry, Hansen Buildings deals with Registered Professional Engineers pretty much every day. It is thanks to years of schooling, field experience, and real life design work these design professionals perform which makes our pole buildings as safe as they are.

In my mind, if a design error is going to be made, let’s have it made on the side of caution.

Today’s Building Codes are not quite like the earliest of codes.

Building codes have a long history. What is generally accepted as the first building code was in the Code of Hammurabi which specified:

If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then the builder shall be put to death.

If it kills the son of the owner, the son of the builder shall be put to death.

If it kills a slave of the owner, then he shall pay, slave for slave, to the owner of the house.

If it ruins goods, he shall make compensation for all which has been ruined, and inasmuch as he did not construct properly this house which he built and it fell, he shall re-erect the house from his own means.

If a builder builds a house for someone, even though he has not yet completed it; if then the walls seem toppling, the builder must make the walls solid from his own means.

Even though we are not using the Code of Hammurabi today, most engineers (fortunately) treat their structural design work as if their lives depended upon it. I would not think of constructing any type of building – without a Professional Engineer having his/her seal of approval on it. Cost of the engineer’s stamp? Minimal compared to the value of my wife, children and others who are in and out of my pole buildings on a daily basis.

This entry was posted in Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Design, Building Department, Pole Barn Planning and tagged sealed plans, RDP, registered deisign professional on July 31, 2013 by admin.

Can a Building Official Legally Change Engineered Building Plans?

I will preface my answer with the statement I have used more than once: If anyone, including any building department plan checker, field inspector, other official, or a contractor, makes any changes or deviations from provided engineered building plans my advice is to obtain a signed statement to the effect they have now become “designer of record”. In effect, they have assumed all liability for the building’s structural design.

With this said, here is where things get dicey. Always pick the battles. Some requests by Building Officials are so minor, it is not worth getting into a fight over. The risk is always in putting forth a challenge, which might raise the ire of the plans checker or inspector. More often than not, a change asked for by the Building Department is a preference item only, which has no code to back it up.

If he wasn’t a building official, it wouldn’t really matter much whether he gets rankled or not. If he was a supplier or subcontractor, fine, take the risk; if he can’t handle it, hire a new one. But you can’t hire new building officials. Get on the wrong side with one and run the risk of installing yourself on the person’s or jurisdiction’s blacklist. Navigating the regulatory quagmire is hard enough without painting a sign on your forehead which says “I am a jerk.”

Trust me on this one – getting into the jerk line at the Building Department is tantamount to waterboarding. Life…will….become….miserable.

I have heard of projects where during construction the engineer of record got calls from the contractor asking for interpretations to the cryptic red marks all over the structural plans. This is alarming because engineers do not release construction plans with red marks on them. If corrections are to be made, engineers make them in the office and reissue the plans. What has happened is an overzealous plans examiner took it upon himself to change the engineered plans via red marks and then issue the plans for construction without bothering to ask or tell the engineer!

In changing the engineer’s design, the Building Department superseded the actual registered engineer as the engineer of record and assumed all sorts of liability. If their risk manager ever got wind of this, heads would roll. And roll they should.

Oftentimes, engineers do nothing about this, especially if it is near an Act of Congress to obtain a building permit in the particular jurisdiction. Sadly sometimes the only way to obtain a permit is via the building department redoing the design and assuming the liability. Raising a stink could cause long delays in the issuance of a permit.

Before questioning the Building Official, weigh the costs. If the building inspector is a reasonable person, ask the question. If, on the other hand, the inspector is seemingly “out to get you”, maybe let the issue pass and then at the end of the project bring it up to his superior.

If you are a Building Official and reading this, please do give me feedback on “smoothing the road”. Trust me; I am on your side. My goal is always the same: To provide adequate support and education to clients to assist them in getting a well-designed pole building which is safe, sound…and built to code.

This entry was posted in Building Department and tagged professional engineer, RDP, architect, engineered plans, plans checker on July 26, 2013 by admin.

Engineer – It Ain’t Amtrack

I once heard an anecdotal story about a man who had a choice to stand in one of two lines – for brains, or trains. He had always wanted to be an engineer, so he picked the line for trains….

OK, so it wasn’t necessarily funny.

If you’ve ever been involved with a commercial building, it was probably designed by a Registered Design Professional (an RDP – an architect or engineer). Ordered prefabricated wood roof trusses? Again, they were probably manufactured from designs created by a registered professional engineer (P.E.) or a structural engineer (S.E.).

In reality, virtually any structure was either designed by an RDP, or should have been.

Most architects subcontract the structural portion of their designs to an engineer. Engineers specialize in their ability to “run the numbers” to prove on paper why things will or will not perform in the real world.

An engineer is responsible for the analysis and design of the structure or framing system of a building or building component. While doing the building’s structural design, the engineer will take safety and performance into consideration. For performance or serviceability this is the design for vibrations from machinery, floor vibration or deflection which could cause discomfort, or even building deflection or sway. The occupants of a building might feel uncomfortable if the building sways or moves too much, especially on the upper stories.

An engineer’s qualifications can be verified. The easiest thing to do is to check if the engineer has either a Professional Engineer (PE) license in civil engineering or their Structural Engineer (SE) license in the state which the project is being built. Some states don’t offer a SE license so this is why there is a difference in the title. While there is a nationally recognized test for engineers, there is no general licensing, it is state specific and each state has their own requirements to obtain and maintain registration.

Okay, so this is a general definition of the responsibilities of an engineer, how does it pertain to post frame buildings? Pole buildings, for engineers, involve the same responsibilities and analysis as any other structure, but it all pertains to one specific material. Very few RDPs are familiar with post frame construction and design pole buildings on a regular basis. If hiring an engineer to design a pole barn, look for one with extensive experience – hundreds of post frame buildings designed, not just five or ten.

Be wary of anyone (builder or company) who says “I’ve done pole buildings for 10 years,” but has no engineering background nor degree. Does this mean he can verify the design he uses will be safe? Is it economical in design or did he just put a lot of lumber into it, many dollars of it which does nothing for the building and a lot for depleting your funds? Does it have verifiable calculations to prove it will stand the test of time and nature? Or does it mean buildings have been built over ten years and fortunately none of them have fallen down – yet? Companies which supply complete pole building kit packages have ongoing relationships or employ engineers who have the expertise it takes to design safe and economical structures, which will perform admirably for generations. Don’t be caught “un-insured”. Make sure your building has an engineer’s stamp of approval on your building plans.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Planning, Building Contractor and tagged registered design professional, structural engineer, sealed plans, RDP on June 29, 2012 by admin.