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My New Riding Arena Has Condensation and Birds

My New Riding Arena Has Condensation and Birds

Reader BETH in LEBANON writes:

“Last fall I had an indoor riding arena built 70 x 152 x 16 that had a built in vapor barrier. The building has cathedral trusses. This is a stand alone building with no stable attached. I have had condensation in the building, especially at certain times. The floor is crushed limestone. I have experienced a bird problem and am thinking of adding a ceiling and maybe indoor panels to keep the birds out and from roosting. I also had been debating about adding insulation. Here are my questions:1. What recommendations would you have re: condensation issues when I add ceiling and maybe the indoor metal panels? 2. If I did add insulation, what type(s) do you use in this situation to provide best outcome and address condensation? I am trying to understand potential temperature impacts in extreme seasons; if it is in the 90’s outside what can I expect the differential to be inside and same with winter. I realize in winter the footing will impact potential difference due to the size of the cold floor.3. Any other comments/recommendations for this type of facility?”

Your ‘built in vapor barrier’ is most likely not a vapor barrier, but rather an Integral Condensation Control (ICC). Read more about ICCs here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/ 

ICCs work well when provided with adequate eave air intakes and ridge exhausts. Without these, you are likely to continue to have condensation issues, even with a ceiling installed.

Your moisture is coming up through your crushed limestone and from your horses. Ideally a heavy vapor barrier (like 15 mil) would have been placed under your limestone to prevent moisture from coming up.

Before putting in a ceiling, you will want to reach out to whoever engineered your building, to make sure you can remove those largely ineffective and possibly negatively impacting knee braces (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2023/10/knee-braces-in-post-frame-buildings/). You also need to verify those trusses will even support a ceiling, as large span pole barn trusses are rarely designed for this extra weight.

In directly answering your questions:

1) Properly vent your attic space, otherwise expect long term problems

2) You need to be able to keep attic air and outside air at same temperature, could take as much as R-60. My preference would be blown in granulated rockwool, as it is unaffected by moisture, however it is heavy compared to fiberglass. Your choice will likely depend upon weight capacity of trusses.

With a steel liner panel ceiling, you may experience condensation on underside of panels, especially if you under insulate. Without an ability to heat and cool, your interior space will be close in temperature to outside – other than summer temperatures will be more like being under a shade tree.

3) In lieu of an under floor vapor barrier, make sure grade outside of building slopes away at least 10 feet in every direction by at least 5%. If you do not have gutters, get them installed, with downspouts running off again no less than 10 feet from building.

This entry was posted in Building Interior, Budget, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Horse Riding Arena, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Barndominium, Trusses, Ventilation and tagged , , , , , on by .

Roof Insulation, a Riding Arena, and Closure Strips

Today’s Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about insulating a roof to keep exposed trusses, the size limits for and equestrian riding arena, and whether or not to use closure strips between the gable (rake) trim and siding.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a 30×40 post frame building with cathedral style trusses. I really like the open look and don’t want to cover them with a ceiling. I want to insulate against the metal roof with vinyl faced blanket insulation to give a nice finished look. The roof currently has bubble wrap which I’m told I should remove so I don’t have two vapor barriers. Question is, if I remove the bubble wrap, is it ok to lay just blanket insulation between trusses or should I try to fill the 1.5″ space between purlins with foam board then blanket insulation over top of foam board. Or would filling the 1.5″ space with spray foam, then blanket over that? Thanks for any advice. BRIAN in LANDISVILLE

DEAR BRIAN: Only way to properly do as you propose is to remove bubble wrap, then have 2″ or more of closed cell spray foam insulation applied directly to underside of your steel roofing. Balance of insulation cavity can be filled with either more closed cell (best R value) or rock wool insulation (as it is impervious to moisture).

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Need an open cover 150 L x 75 W x 13 H to function as a cover for an equestrian arena. Can a pole barn get this big? And if not what is the largest size we can go. JEFF in PINELLAS PARK

DEAR JEFF: While we have provided post frame riding arenas with up to 100 foot clearspans, in most geographical areas, wood truss fabricators are limited to building and shipping lengths up to 80 feet and overall truss heights of 12’.

Interior Clearspan Arena

For extended reading on riding arenas, please visit: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/the-perfect-indoor-riding-arena/

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Should I use closure strips between the gable trim (rake trim) and siding? The siding is tuff rib. STEVE in WARREN

DEAR STEVE: Standard form fitted closure strips are sized to only fit perfectly when applied at 90 degrees to length of steel panels. When going up rake trim, these closure no longer fit, however we have a perfect solution Emseal! https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2016/03/emseal-self-expanding-sealant-tape-closures/
To acquire, please reach out to Materials@HansenPoleBuildings.com along with lineal footage required and ship to zip code.

 

This entry was posted in Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Trusses, Ventilation, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Horse Riding Arena, Roofing Materials and tagged , , , , , , , on by .

Glu-Lam Solution, Building Hawaii? and Riding Arenas

A Glu-Lam Solution? Buildings in Hawaii? and Riding Arenas

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi, I’ve come across your site many times in search for what I’m looking for in a building. One of the things I’m finding difficult is higher pitch, even just 6/12, that is wood based, without web (open), with a fairly wide span available.

Today I came across your article on box beam so I put that idea on hold. I have been interested in glu lam but I don’t want to employ an expensive architect to design it. My thought was 48, 50, or 60 foot maximum width. I have found examples the same or larger even.

Can you provide something like this?

Thanks, BARRY in RACINE

DEAR BARRY: I’ve had challenges with finding an engineer who can make even a 40 foot side span work using the box beam concept work using dimensional lumber. I’d suggest you contact either Dale at Timber Technologies (https://www.timber-technologies.com/titan.phtml) or Duane at Gruenwald Engineered Laminates (https://gruen-wald.com/). Both of them manufacture glu-laminated columns. If there exists a design solution, one or both of them are the people who can solve it for you.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, Do you build in all 50 states? We live in Ohio and have a pole barn and love it. We were thinking about moving to Hilo, Hawaii. Can you tell me if you build in Hawaii? Thanks, AARON in CAMP RAVENNA

DEAR AARON: While Hansen Pole Buildings is not a contractor, and therefore does not construct anything for anyone anywhere, we do provide complete post frame (pole barn) building kit packages to all 50 states, including Hawaii.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We are looking at having an arena constructed and would like to know if you can do a 120 x 250 clear span. JODI in HOPKINSVILLE

DEAR JODI: While a 120 x 250 clearspan can be done, it is going to prove to be phenomenally expensive (whether in wood frame or all steel). Most often clients determine clearspans of 80 feet will better meet with their pocketbooks, while still allowing for the majority of training and riding needs. One of our Building Designers will be in contact with you shortly to discuss your needs and options.

 

 

 

This entry was posted in Horse Riding Arena, Pole Barn Design, Constructing a Pole Building, Trusses and tagged , , , , , , on by .

What Classification is a Horse Riding Arena?

True horse riding arenas are big buildings. Even a relatively small one at 60 foot wide by 120 feet long is a big building – 7200 square feet. Add on a decent width (12 foot as a minimum) aisleway and (10) 12 foot square spaces for stalls, wash racks, tack and/or feed rooms and we are now up to over 10,000 square feet. I have done up to 100 foot wide clearspan by 240 feet long – just for the arena! Some states exempt horse riding arenas from building permits – but what about those which are required to get permits? What should their Occupancy Classification be?

This is a question which is not clearly answered by the Building Code books. In most instances, arenas would be classified as “U” – however it is possible the officials might try to deem it as being “A” (assembly) “B” (business) or “S” (storage), which could entail the need for restrooms, accessibility and depending upon the square footage –  sprinklers.

I did some searching at www.TheBuildingCodeForum.com where many of the participants are code officials. The State of Montana has their own amendment to the IBC (International Building Code) which I found posted on a forum.

(8) The following modifications apply to riding arenas:

(a) Subsection 312.1 is amended by addition of the following paragraph: “Riding arenas limited to occupant loads of 200 or less and used for boarding, breeding, and training of horses, horse shows and competitions, clinics and rider instruction, and open riding are considered agricultural buildings subject to the provisions of Appendix Chapter C, as amended. Uses such as rodeos, barn dances, craft and other nonlivestock shows, conventions, and similar events which result in large numbers of spectators or occupants are not allowed in riding arenas classified as agricultural buildings.”

(b) Appendix Chapter C, Subsection C101.1 is amended by addition of: “9. Riding arenas as defined in amended Subsection 312.1.”

Arena InteriorPlanning a riding arena, in a state other than Montana, and finding the Planning and/or Building Departments want it to be classified as other than a U occupancy? If so, I would certainly pull out Montana’s amendment as it does make practical sense and see if you can sway the powers to be. When it comes to a savings of thousands of dollars, the effort can be well worth it!

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Building Department, Horse Riding Arena and tagged , , , , on by .
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