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A Basketball Court, A “Dog Trot” and Proper Insulation

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about building a basketball court within town height restrictions, building a “dog trot” and some advice on the proper way to insulate a red iron building.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have been on the pole barn Facebook group for over a year and was strongly considering that for a long time however one of the main uses I want the building for besides a workshop and storage is I’m going to build a basketball court for my son and I need the ceiling height to be at least 20 ft in the center probably closer to 25 and I know that will be challenging with a pole barn even with a scissor truss. One of the issues is the town won’t allow residential buildings over a certain height, I think 30′ and we want at least a 12/3 roof pitch so with a 50′ width we would still struggle to get the interior ceiling height we are looking for. Appreciate the info though. NICHOLAS in WESTCHESTER

DEAR NICHOLAS: We have a half-court in our post frame shouse, wish we would have gone 20′ ceilings rather than 16′. As far as heights, we can engineer and provide up to 40′ sidewalls and three stories (or 50′ and four with fire suppression sprinklers), so your heights are not a problem at all. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/04/indoor-basketball-courts/?fbclid=IwAR3E-ZfmI-ICt-QwTZxetHfhk5GYl4bWGfPxTo1HTck-XCS4D6FCgrqFI5M

See what you can find out on your overall height issue for certain. Often they can make small exceptions without having to go through any lengthy or expensive processes. With 50′ span at 3/12 and 30′ overall height you should be able to get close to a 23′ ceiling height. An option might also be parallel chord scissor trusses. Would gain some interior height at center – lose some at sidewalls.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Have you ever built a dog trot style like this using metal buildings? Do you have pictures you can share? My husband and I really want to do this dog trot and hope to see pictures. Can you tell me what size the two structures were the you provided? Also can you provide roof pitch? Our plan is to place at least the first structure or both and build the porch in between. REEDE in STAFFORD

DEAR REEDE: Yes, we have provided dog trot home post frame buildings. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/08/a-dog-trot-post-frame-home/

Because we provide only DIY buildings, we have only a very small percentage of our clients providing us with finished photos. We have done a broad variety of footprints, due to each building we provide being custom designed for each client’s individual wants and needs. Most often roof slopes are 4/12 as it is usually most economical and easiest for an average DIYer to work on.

Our team will gladly provide sketchups for you, for free, so you can get an idea of what your chosen plans will look like in real life. 1.866.200.9657

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello! I keep reading on how to properly insulate on these Facebook groups and have no idea what is accurate. I’m building a red iron building and want to insulate. Metal roof and metal liner on the inside. I’m building a K building from Elgin service center in Ohio. What do you recommend?

Building is in Northwest Ohio. A gym and shop with offices. Space will be heated and cooled.

I’ve gotten a couple quotes and full foam is pretty pricy. Would you recommend house wrap and fiberglass? Or is that a really bad idea? SETH in OHIO

DEAR SETH: You are in Climate Zone 5A for commercial metal buildings requirement for ceiling is R-49 Walls R13 + R14 continuous. You could meet this with all closed cell 7″ in roof, 4″ in walls, or do a combination of 2″ of closed cell plus 10″ open cell in roof. 2″ closed/4″ open in walls. Spray foam should be applied directly to inside of steel. gymnasium

For walls you could probably Tyvek and use batts (I would recommend Rockwool) with an interior vapor barrier, although Code wants 2″ of closed cell, then you could add R-13 unfaced batts with no vapor barrier on interior. For roof, if you have no other source of condensation control, you need at least 2″ of closed cell spray foam directly to roof steel.

This entry was posted in Trusses, Ventilation, Building Interior, Budget, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Design, Barndominium, Pole Barn Planning and tagged insulation, rock wool insulation, post frame basketball court, height restrictions, dogtrot, scissor trusses, dogtrot barndominium on March 20, 2024 by admin.

Scissor Trusses, Attaching a Shouse, Attic Truss Space

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about possibility of installing scissor trusses in upstate NY where there is a heavy snow load (80psf), a recommendation of whether of not to build a shouse and attach it to an aquaponic greenhouse, what the size of space an attic truss might provide with certain building height restrictions.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am considering building a pole barn in upstate NY. We have a fairly heavy snow load (80psf). I was thinking about getting scissor trusses and spacing them out every 8′ and running purlins on edge. I am struggling to find the answer to whether this is possibly or not. Any help would be great! Thanks. DEVIN in DICKINSON CENTER

DEAR DEVIN: 2020 Building Code of New York State lists Ground Snow Loads (Pg) in Figure 1608.2, with the greatest area being 80 psf with an upwards adjustment of 2 psf for every 100 feet above 1000 feet above sea level. As an alternative, Pg may be determined using ASCE 7.

In most instances, placing columns every 10-12′ with double trusses directly aligned with columns and purlins on edge will be your most economical design solution. Scissor trusses may certainly be provided and used, however usually it will be less expensive to increase wall height to gain headroom.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My girlfriend and I are looking to start an aquaponic greenhouse system/farm. We are building a polycarbonate gable style greenhouse 30’x96′-120′ and we are needing to attach a post frame building to the greenhouse in an “l” shape off the shop end. We are/were originally looking to keep the house (4bed/3bath) one level roughly 50×100 splitting the post frame building 50/50 shop and house. But after looking at some of your projects we aren’t opposed to building a taller but shorter home with attached shop still 50×50. My question is in attaching the green house have you ever designed or worked with projects like this? CHRIS in FORT MADISON

DEAR CHRIS: I have not yet attached an aquaponic greenhouse to a post frame building. In all likelihood it can be done, however a question remains as to if it should be done. Aquaponic greenhouses have very high humidity levels (50-70% or more) while living spaces should be 30-50% for health and humidity. It might be prudent to have a small breezeway between, in order to not have to mechanically dehumidify your shop/house space. Otherwise, there is a distinct possibility of having condensation and/or mold/mildew issues within your residential spaces.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: If I am building a 30×40 with 10 foot side walls, and I can only have a maximum peak of 17 feet, so roughly a 6/12 pitch, if I had attic trusses, how tall would the open space be in the attic room? If I can go taller and have a 8/12, or 9/12 pitch how tall could the open space be in attic? Thanks. KRISTI in SAGINAW

DEAR KRISTI: With an eave height of 10′ and a peak height of 17′ your roof slope would be 5.6/12 If your lower ceiling height was set to a finished 8′ you would have roughly 7′ of height dead center of your attic bonus room space – not tall enough to be considered as a usable room and height would decrease with slope of your roof.

If you were able to get a variance on height, it would obviously increase your space. We typically set a ceiling in bonus attic rooms at 7’6″ above finished floor height. At 8/12 this ceiling height would be roughly feet wide, at 9/12 roughly 10 feet.

This entry was posted in Venues, Pole Barn Questions, Shouse, Pole Barn Design, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Planning, Trusses, Ventilation, Building Interior and tagged snow loads, attic truss loft, attic truss, greenhouse, aquaponic greenhouse, purlins, scissor trusses on February 8, 2023 by admin.

Snow Load, Clear Span Scissor Trusses, and a Window Replacement

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about whether or not a 30 year old building correct snow load, the possibility of clear spanning scissor trusses to eighty feet, and assistance with the replacement (or repair) of a window in a Hansen Building from 2014.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How do I figure out the snow load rating for my Morton barn since it is 30 years old and it has poles, trusses and purlins. The purlins are 2 x 8 and 20″ on center with 36 of them over 50 feet and 6 trusses nine feet tall and spanning 50 feet in length and 8 feet apart. Is the rating more than 55psf or not? MARK in PORTVILLE

DEAR MARK: Your roof purlins appear to be adequate to support this type of a snow load. As to trusses, I would reach out to Morton Buildings with your site address and they should be able to pull up truss drawings for your building. If not, you would need to retain services of a Registered Professional Engineer who could do an actual inspection of your trusses and run calculations to determine exactly their capacity.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can you 80 foot clear span scissor truss on a 14-16 foot eave? Commercial shop use. Northern Indiana. ANDREW in AVILLA

DEAR ANDREW: Can and should are not often same.

Yes, an 80 foot clearspan scissor truss can be done, expect it to be either designed with a flat top and a peak “cap” or to be parallel chord with a deep heel and joined together onsite at center. It will prove to be far more economical to utilize flat bottom chord trusses with a taller eave height – this would also allow for full height interior clearance from wall-to-wall. One of our Building Designers will be reaching out to you to further discuss your building needs.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I built my Hansen monitor pole barn in 2014. It took this long but a nasty storm broke out my window in the upper floor of the building. What’s the best way to replace a window and frame in a metal sided building. Do I need to remove the surrounding ribbed sheet metal panels and are there any tricks to that? With an eight-year-old build should I use new screws as the gaskets might be dried out from baking on the southern facing wall? Any methods you can suggest to get me going are appreciated. Thanks DAVE in FERNLEY

DEAR DAVE: Unless your window’s vinyl frame was actually damaged, in most instances a glass company can do a repair of just broken glazed portions. I would suggest a call to Capital Glass in Reno (775)324-6688 as this appears to be in their wheelhouse and they service Fernley.

Rarely does glass repair require steel panels to be removed. In an unusual case where there is no alternative, and steel must be taken off, your siding screws have EPDM gaskets. These are UV resistant and have a manufacturer’s warranty they will outlast your steel siding.

Should you have some photos of your completed building, we would greatly appreciate your sharing them with us.

This entry was posted in Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Structure, Trusses, Windows, Building Interior, Pole Barn Questions, Roofing Materials and tagged window repair, window replacement, purlins, snow load, roof purlins, scissor trusses, clearspan trusses on September 14, 2022 by admin.

Price Per Square, Scissor Truss Spacing, and Column Spacing.

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about our “best guess at price per square…” for a Hansen Building Kit, spacing for scissor trusses, and if there is a national code for post spacing in a barndominium.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What is your best guess at price per square foot range materials and labor to build a Hanson Pole Building these days? STEVE in MAPLE PLAIN

DEAR STEVE: All Hansen Pole Buildings kits are 100% custom designed to best meet wants and needs of our clients, as such – we do not price per square foot, but rather by actual dimensions and features, taking into account climactic conditions at each individual building site (snow load, design wind speed and wind exposure). While most of our clients are doing DIY, largely due to a lack of quality building erectors, fair market value for labor is typically roughly 50% of what your building kit investment is (not including any concrete).

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m hoping you can give me some advice. A pole building 30 wide with scissor trusses pitched at 10/12 out 5/12 inside closed cell insulation finished on the inside with 1″x8″ pine run horizontal ….will spacing the trusses on 4′ centers be alright? The building is in central Iowa zip code 51537.

Thank You so much!! JOHN in HARLAN

DEAR JOHN: These trusses may or may not be adequate for your needs, depending upon loads and spacing they were designed for.

The engineer who sealed your building plans is responsible (by Code) to review your truss drawings to ensure they comply with his or her design specifications as outlined on their plans. They also are to create a permanent bracing plan to satisfy all needed truss and building needs. This bracing plan must be shown on these same plans.

A caution, steeply sloped trusses impart a large horizontal wind load and building sidewall columns must be appropriately analyzed to insure structural adequacy. Columns specific to a 4/12 roof slope, may not be strong enough to carry these added loads. Again, your engineer can (and should) confirm.

DEAR POLE BAR NGURU: Hi, Barndominiums, is there a national code about how far apart the poles should be? 10 ‘ or 8′? Here in Kentucky, I’m under the impression that the poles have to be 8’ apart. Am I correct? Regards DAN in MURRAY

DEAR DAN: You would be incorrect. Poles (actually columns) are inanimate objects and can be spaced at whatever distance their size and grade is capable of supporting using sound engineering practice. Our engineers recently designed a building for one of our clients with columns every 18′ and many years ago, I did one with columns spaced 24 feet on center. In most instances (depending upon climactic loads and door/window locations) columns every 12 feet are most economical.

This entry was posted in Professional Engineer, Columns, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Barndominium, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Planning, Building Colors, Trusses and tagged price per square foot, scissor trusses, columns spacing, cost per square foot, truss spacing, post frame pricing, post spacing on May 25, 2022 by admin.

Hansen (J.A.), the Insides, and Ceiling Liner Panels

This week the Pole Barn Guru responds to reader questions about “Hansen” and the person behind the name, what the inside of a building might look like, and the possibility of adding ceiling liner panels to scissor trusses spaced 4 feet apart.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How long has Hansen (the man himself) been building pole buildings?WESLEY in AUMSVILLE

DEAR WESLEY: Hansen (as in J.A.) is a female. If you are asking about me, my name is Mike Momb and I erected my first post frame building in South Salem in the Spring of 1980, just off Skyline Road South. It was an 18′ x 36′ three sided loafing shed, with a single sloping roof.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What does the inside look like when you have a 1 1/2 story L shaped structure with gable and valley roof? STEPHANIE in FALLSBURG

DEAR STEPHANIE: I will have to guess your left portion has trusses with an attic bonus room, so its inside would most likely look like a long narrow room, with a flat ceiling and finished most typically with gypsum wallboard (aka sheetrock or drywall).

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My scissor trusses are 4ft apart. I want to put up a metal siding ceiling and wondered if I needed like a 1×4 or 2×4 purlin (not sure if that is a purlin) to place between trusses before I put up metal? Or do most just put up metal ceiling with a 4ft gap between trusses? JOE in BOWLING GREEN

DEAR JOE: In most instances steel liner panels will span four feet between trusses without undue deflection. You will want to confirm trusses (and your building) have been designed with an adequate bottom chord dead load to carry weight of liner panels and any insulation you will be placing on top of the steel ceiling.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Building Styles and Designs, Pole Buildings History, Trusses, Building Interior, Pole Barn Homes and tagged interior, Hansen J.A., L shaped building, Pole Barn Guru, Hansen Buildings, ceiling liner panels, scissor trusses on December 29, 2021 by admin.

Nightmare From a Local Pole Building Contractor

Reader RICK in OOLTEWAH writes:

“Regrettably, after going with a local “pole building” contractor I find myself with a semi-completed building and a number of issues (I believe) to work through. The attached photos will hopefully help complete the picture. I was mostly ignorant of the pole building process, best practices, etc., instead just trusting the builder. I’m less ignorant now, thanks to your blog, but my timing could have been much better. I contracted to have a 30x40x12, to be used as a garage/machine shop, built on a leveled dirt pad, to be concreted later. After two months of waiting with said dirt pad ready, through several rainstorms, the contractor sent materials and a crew. They moved quickly, mostly getting the building up in a day. So quickly that no one noticed the standard trusses, not scissor as agreed upon. A 12′ overhead door (again stipulated) was not possible, and a 10’6″ went up in its place. This was a distraction until another hard rain showed water flow directly under the wall, highlighting what I think is the bigger issue. The splash plank has, in places, large gaps underneath (3-6″). By itself not so concerning, but for the fact there is no exposed splash plank on the exterior. The siding and edge trim is run to absolute bottom (nearly to grade). Meanwhile the doors float roughly 8 inches above grade/bottom edge of the trim/splash plank. This leaves a monstrous gap between the overhead when fully down and the highest the grade can go without backfilling against metal. Measurement inside shows exactly 12′ from the TOP of the splash plank to the bottom of the truss. They apparently zeroed out the build from the top of the plank, not the bottom, leaving the better part of 8 inches to make up for in the approach, fill and concrete, and a number of other areas. At this point the contractor has not called in a month, leaving off at “having a guy come install the cupola”. The silver lining for me thus far is I only have 1/3 of the money paid in. Given the way things have gone, I’m in no rush to give him any more, at least without being able to spell out what the problems and solutions are. I keep hoping Im still misunderstanding the process, and am seeing problems where there are none. But if that isn’t the case, what can be corrected and how?”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru says:

You are not alone, thousands of people, just like you, contract to have new buildings erected by “professional” building contractors, only to find what they thought they were getting and what they have received are two different animals. This is just one of many reasons why I encourage people to consider DIY instead – as an average physically able person who will read instructions often ends up with a much nicer finished product than what they would have paid for. If one lacks either time or ability to self-build, it is imperative to know fully what one has ordered and to literally camp out on site to verify work is done as agreed upon.

Hold on to your money tight until all issues are rectified. You do hold the ‘upper hand’ as your building has not been built as stipulated in your contract agreement – it does not have scissor trusses, nor a 12 foot tall overhead door. Rightfully, you could demand and it is likely a court would agree, for said building to be taken down and replaced with what you had ordered.

In order to reach a compromise solution, and provided you can get by with 11’3″ of height going through your overhead door, I would propose this:

Builder to add a 2×4 Pressure Preservative treated to UC-4A or better, below current splash plank.

Overhead door to be changed out to 11’3″ tall (as I can tell from your photos, it appears there is six inches from bottom of your building’s current splash plank to bottom of door).

Builder to fine grade interior to be even with bottom of newly installed treated 2×4.

Builder to grade exterior for 10 feet around building to slope at 5% from bottom of treated 2×4 outward away from building.

While this is not what you agreed upon, it may afford a practical solution to a nightmare you never should have had.

P.S. While crew is onsite, they should replace trim to right of your overhead door opening. Having a splice at this location is both unsightly and dangerous. They should also place a screw on both sides of every high rib of steel siding and roofing at both bottom and top ends of every panel (you will find this will then match manufacturer’s installation instructions).

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Building Contractor, Trusses and tagged standard trusses, DIY pole buildings, pole building contractor, splash plank, machine shop, scissor trusses, grade, garage/shop on October 8, 2021 by admin.

Vaulted Barndominium Ceilings

I Like Vaulted Barndominium Ceilings

When I built my first personal post frame shop/house, it had a 7/12 exterior roof slope, to match other buildings on the same property. Upper level of this building was designed as an area where we would potentially place a ping pong table. To allow for lobs, I had prefabricated scissor roof trusses built with a 4/12 bottom chord slope. While we never got around to playing ping pong, it did make for a dramatic space.

In barndominium design and construction, new homeowners are faced with a choice of standard room framing on ground level rooms, or opening ceilings up to a sloped roofline. This style of architecture is known as a vaulted or cathedral ceiling.

Many people once considered a vaulted ceiling to be an ultimate in home luxury, but now opinions are strongly divided on this construction style, with many homeowners, builders, architects, real estate professionals, and designers expressing outright hatred for vaulted ceilings, while others continue to champion this style. There is almost no other element of home design earning this kind of strong polarized opinion. So is a vaulted ceiling right for you?

A vaulted ceiling in new construction is no more complicated than standard framing, although it does require special roof trusses, usually built off-site. It is somewhat more expensive, though.

When it comes to finishing a two story barndominium, there can be some modest cost savings to a vaulted ceiling, since a smaller second-story will require less finish material to complete it. Because your second story has less floor space, it requires less flooring, less trim molding, etc.

Creating a vaulted ceiling is easily within skill levels of most DIYers.

Single biggest drawback of a vaulted ceiling becomes evident when you ask yourself how you will clean and paint the ceiling, or how you will change lightbulbs or repair light fixtures soaring 20 or 30 feet over your head. My own current shop house has 16 and 20 foot high ceilings. I change can type light bulbs by means of a telescopic bulb changer (roughly a $20 investment).

There certainly are design benefits to a vaulted ceiling. They give a room an illusion of far greater space. Vaulted ceilings do indeed make a room brighter, especially when an endwall is fitted with windows above sidewall heights. By contrast, an open-concept “great room” built with ceilings only eight or nine feet high can feel tight, dark, and airless. Appearance of vaulted ceilings can be greatly improved by adding wood beams spanning across open overhead spaces. Such beams can offer a good place to mount directed light fixtures.

A vaulted ceiling in a one-story ranch rambler can be a very effective style to convert a boring entry level barndominium into a vintage home.

For some people, a tray ceiling is a good alternative to a vaulted ceiling. A tray ceiling looks like a conventional, 8-foot, flat ceiling, but with a center flat portion raised about a foot or so above surrounding surfaces. Tray ceilings give an added feeling of airiness, yet allow for maximum insulating value.

Vaulted ceilings are notorious energy wasters since room heat naturally rises into empty space where it offers no benefit. Because rooms with vaulted ceilings are often fitted with many windows, energy loss can be more pronounced. Finally, vaulted ceilings tend to be draftier, simply because of natural convection patterns caused by warm air rising and cool air falling. Some of this can be mitigated by installing extra insulation in ceilings or installing ceiling fans to force warm air down into living spaces. In reality these spaces will often feel chilly and drafty in winter, especially for homes built in colder climates.

But vaulted ceilings do make rooms undeniably brighter and airier. Many people find this merit alone is worth the drawbacks of winter chilliness.

From a new barndominium-building viewpoint, a vaulted ceiling is no more complicated than standard construction framed with two full stories but it does raise construction costs. And remember, vaulted ceilings reduce the amount of livable floor space. Depending on the vaulted room size, the amount of total available floor space can be reduced by as much as 20 to 50 percent, since the second story is greatly reduced in size.

A vaulted ceiling may be right for you if your home style is compatible with look, and if you are willing to accept increased energy costs and winter draftiness coming along with those bright, spacious feelings. It’s worth consulting a real estate professional to determine if a vaulted ceiling will be a good selling feature for your barndominium.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Homes, Post Frame Home, Pole Barn Design, Barndominium, About The Pole Barn Guru, Shouse, Pole Barn Planning, Shouse, Trusses, Building Interior and tagged scissor trusses, barndominium, vaulted ceiling, tray ceiling, Second story space, standard room framing, ranch rambler on September 8, 2021 by admin.

Working a Shop Mezzanine in With Planning Department Height Restrictions

Not every post frame building gets planned and constructed in areas where height limitations are not an issue. Reader AARON in BURLINGTON gets to deal with his Planning and Zoning Department placing height restrictions on what he can build.

Aaron writes:

“I am planning a 45×56 pole barn, with ~16ft deep mezzanine on the end wall. The zoning rules limit the building height to 25 ft. It seems the best options are scissor trusses with 1) 4:12 roof pitch and 2:12 ceiling pitch which puts the eave height around 16ft or 2) a 3:12 roof pitch with ~1:12 interior pitch which puts the eave height around 17.5. With a 9′ 4” Mezz Floor height and a roughly 16inch thick floor, the height under the mezz will be just under 8ft, and the min/max heights above the mezz will be roughly 1) 6 -10′ or 2) 8- 10′. The space below will be used for vehicle storage (or possibly a pool table), and the Mezz will be used as a recreation area in the center with offices on either side wall. The whole building will be insulated and climate controlled.

My question is: Is it worth going to a 3:12 roof pitch in order to get the extra height on the side wall above the mezz? Or should I stick with my preferred 4’12 pitch and accept the lower height on the sides of the mezz? Or are there other options I haven’t thought of? Building will be in WI, where a snow cover of 6-12” is typical in the winter.”

If you research your trusses very far you are going to find you are not going to be able to get a 45′ span scissor truss with a 4:12 exterior and 2:12 interior, even spacing them every two feet (same with 3:12 and 1:12) and if you should happen to find them, they are likely to have a raised heel (reducing your interior clear height) as well as being phenomenally expensive.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru responds:

Here is my spin – and one probably no one else will suggest (in fact they are likely to raise an eyebrow over it). Stay with 4:12 exterior slope and make eave height 17’6″ to utilize every inch your Planning and Zoning friends will allow. Space sidewall columns front to rear at 14′ – 14′ – 12′ – 16′ with a pair of trusses aligned with each column and purlins joist hung on edge between trusses. With some creative truss and rear endwall column bracing, you can now utilize the space between your rear endwall and the next pair of trusses, all of the way up to the purlins! If your top of mezzanine is set at 9’4″ above grade, you will create a sloped ceiling running from roughly 7’4″ at sidewalls up to 14’10” at center, making for a spectacular recreation area (you have enough height to do lob serves playing table tennis). Make sure to have the purlins in this rear bay designed to support weight of sheetrock (as well as deflection limited to L/240 so as not to crack drywall joints). Roof of this rear 16 foot section is best insulated with 2-3″ of closed cell spray foam directly to roof steel, then the balance of the cavity filled with rock wool batts or open cell spray foam.

One last word of sage advice – do not attempt to do this on your own without an engineer having done your structural design. You will then know it is right and you will have wheels greased when you go to acquire your Building Permit.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Building Department, Pole Barn Planning, Trusses, Building Interior, Professional Engineer and tagged scissor trusses, mezzanine, 4:12 roof pitch, 2:12 ceiling pitch, mezzanine floor height, eave height on January 26, 2021 by admin.

Our Builder Has a Few Questions

Not a surprising statement, as few stick frame (stud wall) builders are willing to learn a new structural system, and few post frame builders have actually erected barndominiums or shouses (shop/houses).

I was a first group member (although willing to learn) and frankly lost my posterior financially erecting my first ‘pole barn’ because I had such a difficult time wrapping my head around left-to-right rather than up-and-down. I got my head on straight for building my second one and actually made $100 an hour back in 1980 erecting it!

For this second group, post frame home building takes in an entire new toolbox of concepts. Energy efficiency and ventilation concerns must be addressed, as well as a different set of efficiencies of material use. It is no longer just a ‘pole barn’ and requires a far greater degree of precision – it isn’t necessarily more difficult, but does take more thought.

Reader BRIAN in PETOSKEY writes:

Hi Mindi and Mike!

We’re really excited that we’re closing in on a final exterior design and starting to focus on the ‘fun stuff’ inside.

We shared the renderings and quote with our builder to keep him in the loop and he had some questions I wanted to share with you.

I’ve read your blogs and understand the argument for the truss arrangement that Hansen prefers. Trust me, I see the logic. That being said, he’s definitely one of those ‘trusses on 2′ centers’ kind of guys.

I explained all of the blog-based talking points on why it’s ‘better’. He was concerned that the material cost may be less, but the labor time would be significantly more to fill in between those spans with 2x10s, etc.

Furthermore, he usually covers the roof in OSB sheathing before putting on the metal. Is that included in this quote? Or is that something extra? He’s concerned about the logistics of applying the OSB with such wide spans between trusses. And in a similar vein, with drywall going on the full underside of all scissor trusses, he’s concerned about the additional lumber and labor needs to provide adequate hangers for sheetrock, etc.

And on top of that, he’s concerned about the lack of ventilation in the roof. I was under the impression that spray foam right onto the underside of the OSB for the entire roof was a best practice. He’s thinking we need baffles or something to allow airflow so as not to compromise the OSB over time.

So basically, a lot of questions on the construction logistics as it pertains to trusses and roof. Why not just run 31 scissor trusses on 24″ centers the length of the building and call it good? And how best to handle ventilation.

One comment he offered several times was that he understands the logic behind this construction style for a garage or storage building, but for a home with heat and sheetrock, etc. he thought this would be creating some obstacles for us.

If this is best answered via email, I’m happy to run middleman or add him as a CC on the answers. He also asked if Mike or someone from Hansen would be willing to talk to him on the phone? He’s open to the process, but wants to make sure he understands exactly what the construction process looks like. He said he would love to see a sample cross section or blueprint, but we both understand those are kept secret until we pay. He wants to wrap his head around it all.

One other concern was about wall framing. Some of the videos show horizontal studs as opposed to vertical. He wasn’t sure if that was always the case or if that is specific instances. Again, he’s a vertical stud kind of guy, but wants to understand if he can change that orientation or if it’s non-negotiable.

When it comes to truss space/between truss framing/wall framing, he’s definitely concerned about drywall logistics, OSB logistics (or not), moisture, and labor. And I want to make sure he feels heard and informed before we dump these plans and materials on his plate. I see both sides, but at the end of the day, he’s our builder and I need him to be fully on board before pulling the trigger. Could you help? I’m sure I’m not the first person with this quandary but I’ve also used enough pole barn builders in our area to know that he’s our best option for this project.

Thank you so much.

I see this dialogue as a parallel conversation to the design process. We’re forging ahead with design and working on our window and door placements this weekend.

Thank you!
Brian

Please tune in tomorrow for answers to Brian’s builder’s questions.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Planning, Barndominium, Building Contractor, Trusses, Ventilation, Insulation, Building Interior, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Constructing a Pole Building, Post Frame Home and tagged trusses on 2' centers, spray foam, Ventilation, scissor trusses, drywall, OSB on November 26, 2020 by admin.

Things Roof Truss Manufacturers Should Ask

Things Roof Truss Manufacturers SHOULD Ask, But Don’t Always

I didn’t just fall off of a turnip truck yesterday, even though there are a few who may doubt my claim!

Prefabricated metal plate connected wood trusses and I became close friends back in April of 1977. Yes, we had electricity then and no, I did not watch space aliens build Egypt’s pyramids. Eventually I owned and operated two truss plants for 17 years. I know it may sound odd, but I did learn a couple of things.

Most of us do not know to ask (or tell) what we are not asked. When Hansen Pole Buildings’ Wizardress of Ordering Justine gives information to our trusted truss suppliers, all of these factors below have been incorporated into our order. This insures your trusses will be adequate to handle loads being placed upon them.

Chances are you (as well as most other post frame building kit suppliers and/or contractors) have not taken all of these into account. In failing to do so, your building may not do everything you want it to do not only today, but also years from now (or could even fall down and go boom).

Here we go:

Span from outside of wall to outside of wall. Eave overhangs are not considered as part of a span.

Desired slope(s) – with scissor trusses to achieve a vaulted ceiling or added center headroom, provide an interior or exterior ‘must have’ and other slope will be determined from ‘must have’ slope.

Spacing (ideally you will be using double trusses spaced directly on columns) rather than going into some lengthy dissertation on truss spacing, please read this article: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/06/pole-barn-truss-spacing/.

Overhangs on eave sides (measured parallel to ground), as well as beyond endwalls. Why is beyond endwalls important? For sake of discussion assume single trusses placed every two feet, unless specified and designed otherwise and end truss in this scenario can only support a foot of overhang past an end. Single trusses placed every four feet can support a maximum two foot end overhang.

Roofing material and any solar or rooftop arrays. How many psf (pounds per square foot) must your trusses support? Steel roofing is fairly light weight. If using shingles, Code requires incorporation of enough load capacity for a reroofing down the road.

Is roofing over purlins, sheathing? Maybe sheathing AND purlins. Whichever is your case, these weights need to be accounted for as top chord dead loads.

Ceiling? If not now, ever? One of my most asked questions is in regards to adding ceilings in existing post frame buildings. At a bare minimum to support steel liner panels bottom chord dead load should be three psf, for gypsum wallboard (sheetrock) five psf. Last year Hansen Pole Buildings opted to increase bottom chord dead load for all trusses spanning 40 feet or less to five psf. We do not frankly do a very good job of promoting the benefits of this feature.

If attic is insulated, weight of ceiling material, ceiling joists and attic floor insulation.

Design wind speed and exposure. More buildings fail from roofs blowing off, than from snow. Depending upon Code year and version, wind speed may be expressed as Vult or Vasd. There is a difference and whoever is going to build trusses needs to know. If you do not fully understand differences between B and C wind exposure, learn quick: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/03/wind-exposure-confusion/

Heated or Unheated? There is a factor relating to whether your building will be heated and it influences design snow load. Heated buildings help melt snow off.

Overall building dimensions: width, length, height above grade. These factors impact wind design.

Risk Category – How your building will be used impacts design snow and wind loads. Buildings with infrequent human occupancy have less risk and can be designed for a greater probability of failure in event of an extreme weather event.

Energy heels for full depth attic insulation? If ever insulation might be blown into a dead attic space for purposes of climate control, to be effective it should be full depth from outside of wall to outside of wall. For extended reading: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/raised-heel-trusses/

Siding material (so proper gable truss recommendations can be made). If supporting other than roll formed steel siding, end truss probably will require vertical studs. Without a continuous wall beneath an end truss, it must be ordered as a structural gable.

Is the building fully enclosed, partially enclosed or open? This will again influence wind design.

Are you interested in parallel chords with a heel height to create a vaulted ceiling? You can get the same slope inside and out with this method.

Done right you would be offered options to increase load carrying capacities against either wind, snow or both. This is true value added design. Builders most always want bare minimums, while people who are doing DIY homes or barndominiums are most likely to increase capacities. If in doubt – own the last building standing!

When I was building trusses I had extremely high expectations of my truss staff, we always wanted to offer designs to exceed our client’s expectations.

Too many factors to juggle? You do not have to fret with an engineered Hansen Pole Building. Please call 1(866)200-9657 today.

P.S. Remember, I have no current interest in any truss manufacturing facility so please don’t contact me for truss prices, thanks.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Structure, Steel Roofing & Siding, Trusses, Post Frame Home, Barndominium, Shouse, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials and tagged overhangs on eave side, pounds per square foot truss support, truss spacing, top chord dead loads, wind speed and exposure, risk category, roof slope, attic insulation weight, scissor trusses, building span on February 26, 2020 by admin.

Scissor Trusses, Hanger Bolts, and Foundation Options

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers questions about scissor trusses, wood framing and hanger bolts for sliding doors, as well as a foundation option for a post frame house.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a 30×40 pole barn. And my lower beam on the trusses is to low for my car lift. Is scissor trusses as strong or stronger then common trusses and I know without a engineer doing the math it’s hard to say. ZACH in ATASCOCITA

DEAR ZACH: Scissor trusses can be engineered to be every bit as strong as conventional trusses. If your idea is to swap out some or all of them, you would be looking at a highly labor intensive project. It might very well be less expensive to just add a taller bay onto one end of your building.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: The round rail hanger bolt on our sliding door got pulled out of the hole drilled through the 2×6 at the top of the door. We have made angle iron for the top and bottom of the 2×6 with 1/2in holes but are finding it difficult to get the bolt through the holes. Is there an easy way to reinstall the door hanger without removing the entire door from the track? AARON in MARYSVILLE

DEAR AARON: You have just discovered one of many reasons why sliding doors should not ever be framed out of lumber. Steel door components (such as horizontal girts) are far superior in every way. They are stronger against wind loads, they do not warp or twist, doors are phenomenally lighter weight and trolley hanger bolts never pull through!

In direct answer to your question – you are going to have to remove entire door, reinstall trolley hanger bolt and rehang door. This might be an ideal time to totally replace your wooden components.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can a pole barn be a permanent house residence, and can they be built on a walled foundation? TERRY in AKRON

DEAR TERRY: Post frame (pole barn) buildings can be permanent residences – I happen to live in one myself, with about 8000 square feet of finished space. They can be built either with embedded columns, or on a partial or full foundation. For more information please visit www.HansenPoleBuildings.com , navigate to upper right corner of the page and click on SEARCH type BARNDOMINIUM in search box and click ENTER. This will bring up a plethora of relevant articles for your reading enjoyment.

This entry was posted in Trusses, Footings, Pole Barn Homes, Sliding Doors, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Planning and tagged foundation, scissor trusses, sliding door parts, pole barn foundations, hanger bolts on January 6, 2020 by admin.

Plans, Scissor Trusses, a Possible New Building

This Monday’s Pole Barn Guru answers questions about plans for buildings, the flat portion of a scissor truss bottom chord, and a possible new building for a “local.”

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Wondering if you sell plans only. I already have a building designed and wonder what it would cost to make sure it is built correctly? Our area doesn’t require stamped drawings. Thanks LEE in RICHMOND HILL

DEAR LEE: We only provide building plans along with an investment into a Hansen Pole Buildings post frame building kit package. We firmly believe every post frame building should be structurally designed and plans sealed by a Registered Professional Engineer. Whether stamped drawings are required or not, if an engineer didn’t design it, who did? It is frankly just not worth risking your life or your valuable possessions in an attempt to save a few dollars.
You won’t be able to acquire needed components yourself for what we can deliver them to you – and we insure everything is provided, so you aren’t making needless trips to your local hardware store. You truly don’t want to become a piece-mealer: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/03/diy-pole-building/.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, Trusses sitting on top of post. I have scissor trusses it looks like the trusses were made for a 6 x6 post I have 6 x10 post. The flat that is cut on the truss is only 6″ so only thing that touches the top of the post is the 6″, 4″ then would be unsupported. This cannot be right? KURT in SAINT HELENS

DEAR KURT: Most metal plate connected wood truss manufacturers fabricate their scissor trusses with a cut at bottom chord ends allowing for a level bearing point on top of either walls or notches cut into post frame building columns (see “H” in example).

Length of this cut is typically equal to minimum required bearing surface, with a minimum of 3-1/2 inches. What your trusses have is entirely within structural design parameters and will perform admirably and is “right”.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi there.

We’d like to build in Hurley, WI. Can you deliver there and what, if any, service do you offer?

Looking to build a place to put a shop, park a 30 foot camper, a fishing boat and two trucks, plus some storage. Would like a lean to either to side or wrap around.

Please advise as to whether it is reasonable for us to inquire with your company, given the distance.

Thank you! VICKIE in HURLEY

DEAR VICKIE: Considering it is only 375 miles from Browns Valley to Hurley, you are almost local! Hansen Pole Buildings provides post frame buildings in all 50 states (yes – even Alaska and Hawaii), so Wisconsin is not an issue.

A member of our team of Building Designers will work with you to arrive at a design solution best meeting with your needs, budget and available space. We provide third-party engineer sealed structural plans for your new building, along with all supporting calculations. You get a completely itemized Materials’ List, delivery to your site and a comprehensive step-by-step manual to guide you (or your builder, should you opt to use one) through assembly. If, for some obscure reason) you get stuck, or off track we provide unlimited free Technical Support via Email during your construction process.

Not only is it reasonable for you to inquire with us – you would be making a grave error should you not! Please give us a call (866)200-9657 and ask to speak with a Building Designer.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Building Styles and Designs, Trusses and tagged trusses, scissor trusses, Plans, Quotes, free quotes, drafting on September 16, 2019 by admin.

Temporary Client Insanity – Truss Problems?

Long ago someone told me during the course of any construction project there comes a time when every client goes absolutely bat-pooh crazy. Personally, even knowing what I know, I am guilty of freaking out and having had a case of temporary client insanity during our own remodel and construction projects for our home.

For hyperventilation they have people breath from a brown paper bag, in my case – perhaps a plastic bag over my head and tied tightly about my neck would have been more appropriate.

Below I will share a client’s concerns. He remained much calmer (totally appreciated) during this process than I might have. He wrote to Justine (Hansen Pole Buildings’ Master of All Things Trusses):

“Justine, one more thing, the top chords of the trusses show 2×8 and the trusses were delivered with a 2×6 top chord, so all the bracing (purlins) will be hanging down. This roof is going to be insulated.

Also, the double trusses are not fastened together and I think I should have more than 1 set of scissored trusses.”

Our Technical Support response:

Building plans are drafted prior to receipt of truss drawings, so trusses as drawn on your plans are merely a depiction of what they may look like. Top and bottom chords as well as internal diagonal webs may be entirely different. The roof slopes will be accurate. Your building’s roof purlins certainly may hang below roof truss top chords, as this has no bearing upon your ability to insulate (please refer to Figure 9-5 of your Hansen Pole Buildings’ Construction Manual). As your roof has a Reflective Radiant Barrier, if you intend to use batt insulation between purlins, make sure to use unfaced insulation without a vapor barrier on underside, otherwise moisture can become trapped between two vapor barriers. This can lead to ineffective damp insulation as well as potential mold and mildew issues.

Per change order #3 your building is to have standard trusses in front 24 feet and a vaulted ceiling in rear 24 feet. With a pair of scissor trusses at 12 feet in front of rear endwall, this allows for the rear 24 feet to be vaulted and front 24 feet to have a level bottom chord.

Truss assembly people are not carpenters – and rarely do truss manufacturing facilities even have nail guns. It also avoids nail wounds from inexperienced or inappropriate use. As an example – back in 1979, I was shopping for a new employer designing and selling trusses. I interviewed with Tilden Truss, near Seattle. They used air guns firing a “T” staple to initially set steel truss plates. Their fabrication shop ceiling was covered with hundreds (if not thousands) of these “T” staples!

You will find it much easier to maneuver single trusses around your building site, than twice as heavy double trusses.

Please feel free to address any building assembly concerns to TechSupport@HansenPoleBuildings.com.

Another crisis averted.

This entry was posted in Trusses, Insulation, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Structure and tagged batt insulation, roof slope, roof purlins, scissor trusses, Hansen Pole Buildings Construction Manual, reflective radiant barrier, unfaced insulation batts, truss top chords, truss diagonal webs on June 25, 2019 by admin.

Pole Building Rooftop Decks

Post Frame Roof Top Decks

Question: Can decks be constructed upon a post frame roof top?

Answer: Yes, and it may prove far simpler than one might expect.

Our typical request from clients generally revolves around having a very slightly sloping roof and to use EPDM (ethylene propylene diene monomer) rubber as roofing over plywood. This solution might work, however very slight slopes tend to be problematic.

One of my own post frame buildings, located lakeside at Newman Lake, Washington, happens to have a rooftop deck. This particular building’s location happens to be perched upon the rear (farthest distance from our lake front) of our steeply sloping lot. The 30’x36’ building with a 10 foot wide enclosed shed off left sidewall has a total footprint of 40’x36’.

This building happens to be tall. Very tall – as in 40’6” from grade to roof peak. Besides garage level, it has two floors above. Upper floor clearspans a 30 foot width with floor trusses. This level also has a vaulted ceiling, provided by scissor trusses (I’ve written about this particular building’s roof trusses previously: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/08/post-frame-scissor-trusses/).

Knowing this building would be very tall, and there would be a 180 degree panoramic lake view, it was planned all along to have a rooftop deck. Adding to design challenges, we wanted this deck to be capable of supporting weight of a hot tub and its occupants!

This deck would cover an area between pairs of roof trusses/sidewall columns, a space of 12 feet along the building length. Sidewall columns were extended through the roof steel, to support glu-lam beams. These glu-lam beams had their opposite ends supported by a roof truss system designed to carry concentrated deck loads (along with snow and ceiling loads).

Where columns and glu-lams penetrated roof steel, a thick, high quality rubber and acrylic elastomeric roof coating formulated especially for steel roofing was used. After over 20 years of service, no leaks have been experienced. Other solutions may have been to use EPDM rubber boots and flashing to seal penetrations.

Interested in roof top entertaining upon your future pole building? It can be done, just ask your Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer.

This entry was posted in Roofing Materials, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, About The Pole Barn Guru and tagged scissor trusses, glu-lam beams, floor trusses, elastomeric roof coating, EPDM rubber on November 2, 2018 by admin.

Pole Barn Insulation, Oh So Confusing

How to best insulate any building can be confusing – with pole barns being right there with any other structural system. “Best” also has to include a balance between the upfront investment and the long term savings, throwing in the wild guess as to what future costs of heating and/or cooling might be. Energy costs are probably not going to get any less expensive, so using today’s costs in determination of the outcome should yield a conservative answer.

To me – a practical return is if I can have my investment returned within a seven year period or not. There are also some intangibles to be factored in, such as a well-insulated building being much quieter for the occupants.

Regular readers will recognize the volume of questions I receive from those who did not plan ahead for the eventuality of climate control and are now looking for solutions. This is an issue which can and should be economically planned for at time of construction.

Reader MATT in ROCKFORD got the ball rolling on this subject when he wrote:

“I am ready to build my dream garage but somehow I managed once again to stumble upon an area where people just can’t agree on a single solution. Insulation!!! There should be a single answer for each barn use. 1: Storage only use this… 2: Equine only use this… 3: Workshop/Garage with occasional winter heat use this… 4: Garage/Mancave/House with full time HVAC use this… Plus the difference is argued about whether to use a radiant barrier? Or vapor barrier and where to put them. Vapor barrier like Tyvek etc. outside, plastic vapor barrier inside between wall material and the studs. Up north, snow on steel. Down south sun blazing on the steel. To vent or not to vent is also important.

I would like to have a person with proper insulation experience in the north and the south who can explain why and in which order ( pic or graphics would be fantastic ) of what is correct. And give definitive answers boasting absolute confidence instead of having an answer that seems wishy-washy. Many kit distributors like to sell things easy to ship (dbl bubble radiant barrier). Many builders like speed, convenience, and mark-up (radiant barrier). Seems like spray foam has issues too.

Ultimately I live in Alabama where humidity, mold, and insects are a definite issue. I am building my final dream garage/home and I am disabled with a limited income so I can’t afford to make a mistake.

Ugh Please Help!

I also forgot to mention or ask about insulation that follows the roof line like in a clearspan structure. Or using steel trusses or scissor trusses where the insulation may be next to the roof and there is no attic. Thanks, Matt”

Matt ~

I feel your pain. Insulation and ventilation are areas where there are a nearly innumerable number of possible solutions, many of which both work and can be Code conforming. Over my nearly 40 years in the post frame building industry, my own feelings about how to properly insulate have changed – most due to the advent of new products, better research and the gaining focus on energy efficiencies.

Tune in tomorrow for the rest of the story!

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Planning and tagged vapor barrier, scissor trusses, radiant barrier, climate control, double bubble radiant barrier on June 14, 2018 by admin.

Concerns of a Post Frame Building Kit Shopper

Hopefully most, if not all, of my loyal readers are those who have concerns when it comes to investing in a new post frame building (I do know some of you just enjoy my slightly skewed sense of humor, or find my writings otherwise entertaining). For those of you who are avid kit shoppers, I try to give honest advice to any question posed to me.

Reader TRAVIS writes:

“Hello, I’m shopping around potential kit purchases and have a few questions.

First off I’m planning to finish the interior, are the long spans between trusses you design able to handle the dead weight of drywall ceilings?

One of my main concerns is column rot as my area is fairly wet. What type of treatment is used on the columns, where do you source them from, and do you ever recommend concrete permacolumns?

Is it possible to use half scissor trusses and half regular to gain extra height in only certain areas?

Thank you any help is appreciated.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru gives advice:

Yes, we are able to design roof systems to support virtually any dead weight – including gypsum wallboard (drywall). Whether a Hansen Pole Building, or not, it is just a matter of the proper loads being applied in the engineering design phase of the truss process, then (if the trusses are spaced over two feet on center) using appropriate framing between the bottom chords of the trusses to support the loads without undue deflection.

If you intend to insulate above the ceiling, make sure to ask for the trusses to be designed with a raised heel at least two inches higher than the depth of the ceiling insulation, to allow for full thickness of the insulation above the sidewalls. Normally this has little effect upon the price of the trusses, however the building must be made taller to provide the same interior clear height.

All Hansen Pole Buildings’ structural columns (supporting roof loads) are pressure preservative treated to a minimum UC-4B specification, which is the requirement per the IBC (International Building Code). Even under extreme conditions, these columns should more than adequately support your building not only for your lifespan, but also your grandchildren’s. The longevity of properly pressure preservative treated lumber has been well documented in scientific testing.

We’ve had clients use concrete permacolumns – if your concern is properly pressure preservative treated wood not being adequate for your situation, a less expensive (and easier to build) alternative would be to pour the column holes full of concrete and utilize wet set brackets.

It is possible to mix any combination of scissored and flat bottom chord trusses throughout your new post frame building to gain extra height or for aesthetic purposes.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Trusses, Building Interior, Columns, Pole Barn Questions and tagged scissor trusses, drywall, UC-4B, permacolumns on May 29, 2018 by admin.

Insulating a Barndominium

Residential post frame buildings are becoming more and more prevalent as consumers are beginning to realize they can save thousands of dollars in foundation costs and actually build their own beautiful and well insulated barndominium homes.

Steve from Northglenn posed this question:

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Now that the “Barndominium” style home is more popular than ever, have standards and practices been developed for creating a well insulated/air sealed pole structure?

Particularly, how would you recommend designing well insulated/air sealed pole barn home with cathedral ceiling/exposed joists in climate zone 5b?
I would like at least r49 in the ceiling and r28 in the walls, but the more the better. I would like to avoid spray foam due to the costs, and the steel replacement factor; replacing damaged exterior steel which has been sprayed with foam insulation sounds like a nightmare.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru:

My thought is bookshelf girts with BIBS(blow in blanket insulation), plus 1.5″ of XPS sheathing (fully sealed/taped) outside of the posts, then either attach the steel to the girts through the XPS, or place 2x4s on the XPS and attach the steel to that to maintain an air gap.

The ceiling I am less sure of. How is the ceiling finished if exposed trusses are desired? Is drywall screwed directly to the underside of the girts? If so, what supports the edges of the drywall on the 2′ span between girts? What is the largest girt size that is reasonable? In order to get a r49+, the roof would need 2×12 girts with BIBS plus 1″ of XPS, then steel, or 2×10 girts with BIBS then 2.5″ of XPS.

Have you ever used roof SIPS to get higher R-values? If so, how are they attached to the girts?

What is the best way you recommend to accomplish this?

Thanks! Steve

Dear Steve: Might as well start at the end and work forward.
SIPS – (Structural Insulated Panel System) No, I have never used them. They would provide high R values, however they appear to be extremely expensive. As far as I can surmise, the savings in energy costs will never offset the added cost of the SIPS. I had done some preliminary research on the use of SIPS for post frame. However the people “in the know” never shared the information I needed to be able to write further about them:

SIPS

I would think to use SIPS would require the use of very long screws to attach them to the underlying roof system adequately enough to maintain structural integrity of the building.
For the roof, you are not going to want to place XPS (Extruded Polystyrene rigid foam board such as Owens Corning FOAMULAR®) between the roof purlins and the roof steel, as this will compromise the shear values of the roof steel.
Without going to the expense of deep I joists or prefabricated parallel chord trusses for roof purlins, the largest readily available dimensional lumber would be 2×12, which even with BIBs is only going to net you about R-45. Plus the upper foot of the roof trusses would then be “buried” by the thickness of the purlins.
If your goal is to have an exposed truss, you might want to look at doing parallel chord scissor trusses to create an attic space in which you could blow in even R-60 insulation, then use a non-structural truss below to create the look you are after. Our friends at Timber Technologies are just one possible source of this type of truss:

(https://www.timber-technologies.com/titan_trusses.phtml)
On the walls, you have the same potential challenge with attempting to place XPS between the girts and the siding, as on the roof. The best results are going to be obtained when as much of a thermal break as possible can be created. Bookshelf girts can provide for a deep insulation cavity, then the XPS panels can be placed on the inside of the girts, and GYB (Gypsum Wall Board) can be installed on the inside of the XPS panels. You will want to have a quality Weather Resistant Barrier between the wall framing and the steel siding. Read more here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2016/01/determining-the-most-effective-building-weather-resistant-barrier-part-1/
The XPS panels will serve as a vapor barrier on the inside of the walls, so you will not want to have another vapor barrier (such as Visqueen) on the inside of the wall insulation.
Looking for a super insulated new home? Post frame construction is most likely the answer!

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Building How To Guides, Trusses, Building Interior, Pole Barn Homes and tagged bookshelf girts, scissor trusses, SIPS, Insulating a Roof on April 5, 2017 by admin.

Overhead Doors and Eave Height

Putting a 14 Foot Tall Overhead Door in a Short Eave Height…

I’ve been doing post frame buildings now for a couple of years. Okay, maybe a couple of couple of years, as in 37 (ouch, am I seriously this old?). I’ve learned a certain amount of clients (and builders) are seemingly dimensionally challenged when it comes to fitting overhead doors into buildings. Quote request, after quote request has come across my desk, for the overhead door height and the building eave height to be the same!

Newer readers might want to review how eave height is measured on post frame buildings: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/02/eave-height-2/.

Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer Doug posed this question of me earlier today, which came from a client of his:

“Do you offer a vaulted bottom chord that would allow us to lower the sidewall height and keep 15’6” at the 14’ overhead door?”

And Doug added…..

“My instinct and experience says we need minimum 2’ especially with a 14’ high door but it never hurts to ask.” (This would be needing two feet of eave height greater than the overhead door height)

The building in question has a 40 foot wide endwall. With placement of the overhead door at the center of the endwall, here is my answer to Doug:

The bottom side of the top jamb will be at 14’2.5″ above grade, 15″ to clear = 15’5.5″. Door is 12′ wide, so allow an extra 6″ of width for the tracks. This means at 13’6″ from the sidewall, you need to have 15’5.5″ above grade. With a standard gabled roof and 2×6 top chord on the trusses, the door just fits.

If the scissor truss bottom chord was a 1/12 slope, the eave height could be lowered to 14’10.5″; 2/12 13’9″; 3/12 12’7.5″.

Now the kicker – with scissor trusses, your client had better drive straight into the building and not want to park close to one of the sidewalls, because those trusses make a nasty slapping sound when they get hit, right before the roof caves in.

Because the scissor trusses are going to require adding to the exterior slope of the building, the overall building height is going to be the same or more, and scissor trusses are more expensive than standard trusses – probably making the entire project more expensive, with less net interior clear space throughout the building.

Can he do it? Sure. Is it practical or safe? Probably not.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Building Doors and tagged bottom chord dead load, eave height, scissor trusses on March 29, 2017 by admin.

Pole Building Trusses

Pole Building Roof System – Dressed Up!!

For years I sat in church on Sunday mornings with my children and admired the magnificent trusses which supported the roof. Built from glulams with the joints connected with bolted steel brackets – they were nothing short of fabulous. To me (coming from a background of construction and prefabricated roof truss manufacturing), I believe I had a special attraction to them more than just the average parishioner.

Truss-Framing As pole buildings have gravitated from the farms of the 1950’s into the mainstream of popular construction, their owners have been looking for more appeal than what was offered by the average tractor shed.

The aesthetics of massive exposed trusses somehow is appealing to many of us. By using glulaminated timbers to fabricate them, the members have very few flaws and can be readily finished to highlight the natural beauty of the wood.

By using prefabricated metal plate connected wood scissors trusses, the structure of the roof surface can be readily supported. These trusses may have conventional “heels” (the point where the top and bottom chords meet) and an exterior slope which is greater than the interior slope. By use of a raised heel, the bottom chord slope can be increased to give a more dramatic look, as well as creating a deeper insulation cavity.

Ceiling finishes are then often tongue and groove two or three inch thick material. Depending upon the spacing of the trusses, often no other bottom chord framing is required for their support.

Non-load carrying glulam trusses can be placed directly below the decking to give the impressive look, without sacrificing any of the “pretty” parts of the truss – as this work is being done by the hidden trusses above the decking.

Whether office space, a church, great room or man cave – if you want to “knock the socks” off your guests or clients, this one offers some distinct possibilities

This entry was posted in Trusses, Pole Barn Structure and tagged man cave, glu-laminated columns, glulams, scissor trusses, trusses on September 3, 2014 by admin.

Changing Bottom Chord Height

At least in my generation we were raised to believe the experts – whether it be doctors, attorneys, or building contractors really knew what they were doing. I know I have the expectation and I believe our clients expect the same from us – as they should.

Truss Drawing - Bottom Chord I recently wrote about an article my Uncle Neil had written for the Journal of Light Construction (JLC). Just out of being curious I did a search under “pole barns” and was amazed when I found the thread below (keep in mind these are JLC-Online Expert Forums).

Here is the question posed:

I would like to raise the bottom chord on two trusses in my pole barn.
I have set many a floor truss and roof truss and know that this kind of modification is based on approval from an engineer, I was just wondering if any of you have done this in the past. The trusses are 42′ long with a 2X10 bottom chord, 3/12 pitch. I would like to raise it 12 to 16″ inches from the bearing point out 12 feet.

And the responses from the “experts”, and my take on each one:

Should be possible. We have done similar things using LVL and plywood gussets. Contact your engineer and have him draw you a repair.

At least this one recommends having an engineer involved. What the Original Poster (OP) is asking for is a major repair, and is very likely economically impossible (I always tell clients we can design nearly anything, as long as they have enough money to pay for it).

In the few cases where I’ve needed a truss repair I’ve always gotten them from the truss manufacturer… lo and behold they’ve been asked before and have a filing cabinet full of ready-to-go solutions.

I owned two prefabricated metal plated wood truss manufacturing plants over 17 years. There is no such thing as a filing cabinet full of ready-to-go solutions.

If you are only modifying two trusses you could sister the top cords with 2/12 rafters, (I get 21’ 7 ¾”, full rafter length, 3/12 pitch at 21’ run, btw, I also get a lateral change distance of 5’ 4” for a 16” rise, not 12’, so perhaps I’m not understanding you completely, the maximum new bottom cord length would be approximately 30’ 9”, if the seat cut of the new rafters are full bearing @3 ½”, not likely.) Nail them solid from both sides, pop your new ceiling line on the trusses to cut, cut on the line and cut out of the 2/10 bottom cord that is being raised to fit directly under the new rafters, nail well to the cut webbing from both sides. Add substantial gusset scabs over both sides of the new connections at the 2/10 to 2/12 rafters. Finish cutting the bottom cord as needed. Modify each bottom cord one at a time.

Without seeing it, this sounds like the modification I would entertain. Proceed at your own risk. Also, call the Truss Co and speak to their engineer.

I am guessing this expert is NOT a registered design professional (RDP – architect or engineer), but they are passing out dangerous advice as if they knew what they were talking about. No RDP in their right mind would give instructions like these (or any others) without, at the very least, a copy of the original sealed truss drawings.

And in the end, from the OP:

Thanks for the replies. I am going to call Cleary the builder and see if they have any stock
drawings for this application.

I would like to have been the fly on the wall at Cleary Buildings when this call came in, especially after the expert advice given by the experts. Pole building trusses are typically engineered so the design loads are very close to capacity (to do otherwise would be bad business on the part of the builder/supplier/fabricator).

My best guess as to a solution – would be to order scissor trusses strong enough to carry the loads and place them alongside the existing trusses, then remove the portions of the old trusses which fell below the scissors truss bottom chord. In any case – a truss should never be cut or modified in any way, without involving a RDP. Keeping your roof up, could be a lifesaver. Maybe yours!

This entry was posted in Trusses and tagged changing truss bottom chord, pole barn truss, pole building truss bottom chord, scissor trusses on July 23, 2014 by admin.