Tag Archives: shop house

A Walk-Out, A Shouse, and Spray Foam Insulation

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru addresses reader questions about the possibility of Hansen designing a walk-out basement, building a Shouse, and a consideration of spray foam insulation.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Do you do walkout basement? DIANE in WARRENTON

About Hansen BuildingsDEAR DIANE: Absolutely we can provide your barndominium with a walkout (daylight) basement: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/02/barndominium-on-a-daylight-basement/
We have also developed the technology to incorporate a Permanent Wood Foundation between columns on sides where you are cutting in. This greatly reduces amount of required concrete, saving you money!

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have been dreaming of a 56 x 32 work shop at my home. I have the urge to build a 2 story structure with the lower floor having a 16 foot wall height so a lift can be use as well as a car stacker. the upper floor could be an 8 – 10 foot wall height being used for storage and wood working and maybe a man cave type room. Is such a monstrosity buildable…can you help me with this? Thank you for your time, GEOFF in RAPID CITY

Gambrel roof pole barnDEAR GEOFF: This can totally be done – my own personal shouse (shop/house) has a 16′ ceiling downstairs, and upper level clearspans 48′ across so there are no columns to negotiate. Storage and wood working can be heavy, plus you have the efforts of having to move materials in and out far above ground. Provided you have space on your property, you would be far ahead to put all of this space on one level – access will be easier, you won’t burn up space to stairs, etc.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am looking to build a garage/workshop for year round use, so I am considering foam insulation.
I am leaning towards 2″ closed cell foam, then a 2×4 wall with batt material so there is no direct transfer of heat/cold.
I read that almost everyone recommends house wrap under the metal walls then spray foam in case a section of metal wall needs to be replaced in the future.
My question is: Should I also include house wrap for the roof in getting my estimated cost? Will the spray foam stick to the roof wrap or should it be applied directly to the metal?

Thank you for helping me with this, BILL in OAKDALE

DEAR BILL: Closed cell spray foam is a great product and is best applied when sprayed directly onto steel roofing and siding. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/04/spray-foam-insulation-3/

Steel with closed cell spray foam directly applied would have to take one monstrous hit to be damaged – enough so as you are probably replacing far more than just the panel and should be filing an insurance claim.

In your climate zone, this is what I would typically recommend:

ROOF: Order steel roofing with an Integral Condensation Control factory applied. Order roof trusses with 22″ raised heels, blow in R-60 fiberglass on top of ceiling. Enclosed vented soffits and vented ridge

WALLS: Weather Resistant Barrier between framing and wall steel, bookshelf wall girts, minimum R-20 unfaced batts (I prefer rock wool), well sealed R-5 rigid insulation on interior

SLAB: Perimeter R-10 rigid insulation down 4′ (or 2′ down, then out from building to follow Shallow Frost Protected Foundation requirements).

Human Habitation Prohibited

Human Habitation Prohibited

“Please be aware that the Land Development Code and adopted Building Codes prohibit the human occupancy of any Accessory Building. This means that buildings such as metal buildings, pole barns, tool sheds, garages, or any other accessory structures shall not be constructed or used for human occupancy. Accessory Buildings are not constructed to the same Building Code standards as Dwellings and therefore a neither suitable nor safe living quarters.”

This quote is from Guidelines for the Permitting, Construction and Use of Accessory Buildings and Structures and is provided by Cass County, Missouri.

Taken all by itself, it would lead one to believe it is impossible to build a barndominium or shop/house in Cass County.

Now….. as the late, great Paul Harvey would have said, “Here is… the rest of the story”:

Planning Departments (also referred to as Planning and Zoning or other similar monikers) can place many restrictions on what can or cannot be built upon any particularly zoned piece of property. These restrictions may include (but are not limited to): Maximum or minimum footprint of dwellings, ratio of living space to garage/shop space, wall and/or overall building heights, setbacks from property lines and other structures, even such things as allowable materials and colors for roofing and siding products.

Yes, I know, it is YOUR property (or yours and your bank) however as long as you have to pay property taxes, you are actually just renting ground from your tax collecting authorities.

What Planning Departments cannot legally do is to prohibit a Code Conforming structural building system from being utilized (and to do so could very well be a Constitutional violation).

Most jurisdictions have adopted International Building Codes (IRC for residential, IBC for other structures). 

IRC has no language in it pertaining to post frame construction, while IBC indeed does.

To follow are IRC excerpts justifying IBC use:

In “Effective Use of the International Residential Code”:

Paragraph 4:

“It is important to understand that the IRC contains coverage for what is conventional and common in residential construction practice. While the IRC will provide all of the needed coverage for most residential construction, it might not address construction practices and systems that are atypical or rarely encountered in the industry. Sections such as R301.1.3, R301.2.2.1.1, R320.1, M1301.1, G2401.1 and P2601.1 refer to other codes either as an alternative to the provisions of the IRC or where the IRC lacks coverage for a particular type of structure, design, system, appliance or method of construction. In other words, the IRC is meant to be all inclusive for typical residential construction and it relies upon other codes only where alternatives are desired or where the code lacks coverage for the uncommon aspect of residential construction.”

IRC R301.1.3 Engineered design.

“When a building of otherwise conventional construction contains structural elements exceeding the limits of Section R301 or otherwise not conforming to this code, these elements shall be designed in accordance with accepted engineering practice. The extent of such design need only demonstrate compliance of nonconventional elements with other applicable provisions and shall be compatible with the performance of the conventional framed system. Engineered design in accordance with the International Building Code is permitted for all buildings and structures, and parts thereof, included in the scope of this code.”

In lay person’s terms – a post frame building can be fully engineered to meet with all necessary requirements for meeting structural requirements for snow, wind and other climactic conditions for residential as well as a plethora of other uses.

Should any jurisdiction tell you otherwise – please share this information with them and if they are still unyielding, send me a copy of their written (and approved by City/Town council or county commissioners) documentation and I will politely discuss further with them on your behalf.

Pneumatic Vacuum Elevators for Barndominiums

Thank you to my friend John Lyle who encouraged me to write about elevators.

As a child, I was fascinated by going through bank drive thrus with our mother as she made bank deposits.

Why?

Because Mother could fill up a clear plastic cylinder with her deposit, push a button and it was whisked away to a voice somewhere inside! It wouldn’t be long and whoosh – cylinder would reappear, Mother removed her deposit receipt and away we went.

Obviously it took very little to entertain and amaze me.

When my lovely bride and I were planning our shop/house barndominium 16 years ago, our living space would be 20 feet above grade. This means stairs and lots of them. Even using residential maximum rise of 7-3/4” this 20 feet of climb results in a total of 30 stairs.

Now this is great for cardio training, however my lovely bride told me in no uncertain terms was she going to haul groceries up all of those stairs!

My wife did our elevator shopping and found a somewhat affordable option – a pneumatic elevator! My childhood fascination was loving this solution! Our choice then was a 37” diameter unit, good for two persons (up close and personal albeit) and a capacity of 450 pounds.



This elevator was all well and good, until my bride was in an accident five plus years ago leaving her as a paraplegic. (read more here https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/10/when-life-changes-in-the-blink-of-an-eye/). In order to get her from garage/shop level to living spaces, using our pneumatic elevator,  it entailed us investing in an airline aisle wheelchair.  I would physically pick her up from her manual chair, rotate 90 degrees and plant her on this aisle chair, then strap her on. All of this was a tight squeeze through the elevator door and she had to poke a button over her shoulder to get it to rise. Meanwhile, I would race upstairs to reverse transfer processes and get her into her power chair.


Eventually, we added a full sized elevator (story for another day).

Now PVE® (www.vacuumelevators.com) does provide a wheelchair accessible version with a 52-11/16” diameter. Downside is capacity is only 525 pounds and my wife’s power chair weighs in at close to 400 pounds without her!

Some things we found out in this process…..

These units are very fragile when being shipped. At factory, a ‘tipping indicator’ is placed on each crate, as handling direction is crucial. Somewhere along its journey, one of our crates was tipped and someone tried to remove the indicator and relocate it to hide what had occurred (and yes, there was damage).

Our builder had provided dimensions to the elevator company from top of garage/shop slab to top of living area floor. He must have been having a tape measuring challenged day – as our elevator stops about two inches too high.

Elevators must be run regularly. If it goes more than a few weeks without being used, it loses its ability to suction and takes some time and effort to get it operational again.

Considering a multi-story barndominium? If so, these pneumatic elevators might be a wise upfront investment. If we were to do it again from scratch, I would have opted for a wheelchair accessible unit.

A Shouse, Eliminating Condensation, and Building Trusses

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about the design of a shouse (shop house), a resolutions for condensation, and building trusses.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi – We are looking into pole barn buildings however we’re clueless on where to start and how big we actually need it to be. My husband has an HVAC business so we would need the garage/shop to be big enough for at least 3 bays plus a small shop and storage. 4 Bedrooms and at least 3 baths, ideally we’d like to have an open floor plan below and the bedrooms be in a loft type. What would you recommend?

Thank you! STEPHANIE in BELLE VERNON

DEAR STEPHANIE: Thank you for reaching out to me. In order for you to end up with an ideal dream solution, it will take some homework:

Plan tips – consider these factors:

Direction of access (you don’t want to have to drive around your house to get to garage doors)

‘Curb appeal’ – what will people see as they drive up?

Any views?

North-south alignment – place no or few windows on north wall, lots on south wall
Overhang on south wall to shade windows from mid-day summer sun If your AC bill is far greater than your heating bill, reverse this and omit or minimize north overhangs.

Slope of site

Work from inside out – do not try to fit what you need within a pre-ordained box just because someone said using a “standard” size might be cheaper. Differences in dimensions from “standard” are pennies per square foot, not dollars.

Use links in this article to assist with determining needed spaces, sizes and how to get expertly crafted floor plans and elevation drawings https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/10/show-me-your-barndominium-plans-please/

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi, I had seen a post mentioning your Gable vents. I have a pole barn with 12″ lapped steel siding and would like to install Gable vents on the ends to help with condensation.  Barn is 40×60. MIKE in MINNEAPOLIS

 


DEAR MIKE:
If you have a steel roof with nothing on underside to create a thermal break, and are getting condensation you should have two inches of closed cell spray foam applied to it.

For a 40×60 building you would need to have eight square feet total of net free ventilation with at least half of it located in top half of your attic. This amounts to 576 square inches of net free ventilation area in each endwall. Please contact Materials@HansenPoleBuildings.com to request a price quote, provided steel ribs are no greater than 3/4″ tall (they will need this information on net free area and your zip code).

 

Ceiling Loaded TrussesDEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have posts for a pole barn set 15 of how should I build truss for this set up? DANIEL in SNYDER

 

DEAR DANIEL: You should contact your nearby prefabricated wood truss manufacturer and order from them. Do not attempt to build them on your own.